Best and Worse

JALU3 · 08-26-07, 05:01 PM

Who do you think have been the 10 best Presidents of the United States?
Who do you think have been the worst 10 Presidents of the United States?

(List of Presidents)

If you don't live in the US, please also include:

Who do you think have been the 10 best Heads of State of your nation-state?
Who do you think have been the worst 10 Heads of State of your nation-state?

(and if they are not not the same)

Who do you think have bene the 10 Best Heads of Government of your nation-state?
Who do you think have been the 10 Worst Heads of Government of your nation-state?

joegrundman · 08-26-07, 09:52 PM

Good grief! I don't think i could name 20 Prime Ministers. And technically I suppose the heads of state in Britain are the Kings and Queens.

With regards to those, it's been a very long time since any of them had the kinds of executive capabilites of a US president - I'd guess over 500 years, and so we tend to attribute a certain Zeitgeist and sense of development in an era as represented by the Monarch in question without assuming the Monarch was directly responsible for any of it.

E.g. The Elizabethan era, which we generally consider the era in which England transformed from a relative European backwater to its beginnings of being a world power, which went hand in hand with Britain's cultural revolution; Shakespeare and Francis Bacon.

And of course there's the Victorian era. Tell me, is the final third of the 19th century considered the Victorian era in the US? Sometimes when i read stuff i get the feeling it is.

But as for the capablities of monarchs, i think Churchill said something along the lines of not one English monarch compares with the meanest Prime Minister, with the possible exception of Edward the third, and probably not even him.

As for bad monarchs. Until the modern era, they had some ability to throw spanners into the workings of Parliiament. Notably bad was King George III whose obstructionism went a long way to preventing an early settlement of the taxation dispute with the North American colonies.

Other bad monarchs could include Charles I, but by demanding the rights of ABsolute Monarchy in England that could be seen in much of Europe he provoked the English Civil War that led to the ultimate triumph of Parliament over Monarch, with profound consequences for the future of democracy in this world. So his badness may in fact have been an ultimate good.

There was also Richard the II, who was a particularly inept Monarch. Shakespeare wrote a fantastic play about him. One of my favourites it is and I strongly recommend it. Someone, i forget who, described him as a stunning indictment of the heriditary principle and you can only agree. He was deeply unsuitable for the role of a medieval king, would have been much better as a farmhand, and in the end was shunted from power by the usurper Henry Bolingbroke, later crowned Henry IV, and died with a red hot poker up his backside in Pontefract Castle

As for the US, hmm...I'm looking at a picture here where it is now beginning to look like Cheney has been the first ever president to oversee a net decline of US influence worldwide. (Although that influence is still astronomical) If the fundamental duty of a head of state is to promote the national interest at all other costs, that would place him high on the bad list.

JALU3 · 08-26-07, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

. . . look like Cheney has . . .

LOL

Well, I am more familiar with structure then the actual actors, so I cannot comment on the past Heads of State of Great Britain . . . however, I can comment on the above.
He is a Vice President, so isn't included in any of the list that I asked everyone to list. But as for Vice Presidents go . . . believe me, there are worse . . . Andrew Jackson, Herbert Humphrey, and Spiro Agnew. (and I am leaving some out . . . such as a level 10 Vice President

)

08-26-07, 05:01 PM	#1
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Best and Worse Who do you think have been the 10 best Presidents of the United States? Who do you think have been the worst 10 Presidents of the United States? (List of Presidents) If you don't live in the US, please also include: Who do you think have been the 10 best Heads of State of your nation-state? Who do you think have been the worst 10 Heads of State of your nation-state? (and if they are not not the same) Who do you think have bene the 10 Best Heads of Government of your nation-state? Who do you think have been the 10 Worst Heads of Government of your nation-state? __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

08-26-07, 09:52 PM	#2
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Good grief! I don't think i could name 20 Prime Ministers. And technically I suppose the heads of state in Britain are the Kings and Queens. With regards to those, it's been a very long time since any of them had the kinds of executive capabilites of a US president - I'd guess over 500 years, and so we tend to attribute a certain Zeitgeist and sense of development in an era as represented by the Monarch in question without assuming the Monarch was directly responsible for any of it. E.g. The Elizabethan era, which we generally consider the era in which England transformed from a relative European backwater to its beginnings of being a world power, which went hand in hand with Britain's cultural revolution; Shakespeare and Francis Bacon. And of course there's the Victorian era. Tell me, is the final third of the 19th century considered the Victorian era in the US? Sometimes when i read stuff i get the feeling it is. But as for the capablities of monarchs, i think Churchill said something along the lines of not one English monarch compares with the meanest Prime Minister, with the possible exception of Edward the third, and probably not even him. As for bad monarchs. Until the modern era, they had some ability to throw spanners into the workings of Parliiament. Notably bad was King George III whose obstructionism went a long way to preventing an early settlement of the taxation dispute with the North American colonies. Other bad monarchs could include Charles I, but by demanding the rights of ABsolute Monarchy in England that could be seen in much of Europe he provoked the English Civil War that led to the ultimate triumph of Parliament over Monarch, with profound consequences for the future of democracy in this world. So his badness may in fact have been an ultimate good. There was also Richard the II, who was a particularly inept Monarch. Shakespeare wrote a fantastic play about him. One of my favourites it is and I strongly recommend it. Someone, i forget who, described him as a stunning indictment of the heriditary principle and you can only agree. He was deeply unsuitable for the role of a medieval king, would have been much better as a farmhand, and in the end was shunted from power by the usurper Henry Bolingbroke, later crowned Henry IV, and died with a red hot poker up his backside in Pontefract Castle As for the US, hmm...I'm looking at a picture here where it is now beginning to look like Cheney has been the first ever president to oversee a net decline of US influence worldwide. (Although that influence is still astronomical) If the fundamental duty of a head of state is to promote the national interest at all other costs, that would place him high on the bad list. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 08-27-07 at 12:01 AM.