So Im a dinosaur and dont get it.

Mush Martin · 08-26-07, 09:30 AM

Being Genuine twentieth century man
I am a little fuzzy on some of the subtlety's of the
future.

could someone please fill me in

What I dont understand is what is so useful about a no cd patch
outside of piracy?

that is to say what legitimate function is there for it?

melnibonian · 08-26-07, 09:49 AM

MM I don't think you will get an answer in this question. Let's say it's too delicate

Dowly · 08-26-07, 09:56 AM

The number 1 reason 'a friend of mine' likes to use them is that the CD/DVD disc is preserved. The 'friend of mine' have had numerous occasions where he have been going thru his games and found some very good old game he wants to play again, so he inserts the disc to his drive just to notice that it is too scratched to be used anymore.

Besides, it's easier than to make a backup of the disc (AFAIK, everyone has a right to make 1 backup of the disc you have purchased).

joegrundman · 08-26-07, 10:04 AM

Why should it be delicate? After all Ubisoft decided to bundle SH4 patch 1.3 with a nocd patch. Why would they do that if they didn't acknowledge that it makes life easier? I ask you, having patched SH4 to 1.3, do you still want to use the CD?

My last SH3 DVD broke from over use. I've had to buy the game again. Thankfully it's not very expensive, but if it had happened when it was still on first release price, i'd be less than thrilled. It was a hassle enough to get it shipped out to me as I live in Tokyo, and the price of the Japanese edition was just too much.

In addition, my DVD drive gets tired of being opened and closed all the time. Every now and again it throws a connection and then I have to reboot my PC. I guess I should fix it somehow.

Finally, my 18month old daughter just LOVES to play with my CD's left lying around, or extracted from the DVD drive, while I'm focused on nailing that Grosse Ladung.

None of these things cause problems for me when playing SH4, but I'm just not into that game quite so much....so yeah...I'd love for Ubisoft to release an official nocd patch. They've already done it for the expensive SH4, so why not for the budget price SH3?

Still, I'm a little bit curious as to WHY they released a nocd patch for SH4...

Mush Martin · 08-26-07, 10:07 AM

Thanks guys I just feel a little Naive somedays.

Oh good point

well at least im in touch with my feelings.

melnibonian · 08-26-07, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Why should it be delicate?

Because it is right on the border with the Forum Rules

TarJak · 08-26-07, 10:03 PM

AFAIK most "backups" of disks are unplayable without a No CD patch anyway.

StarFox · 08-26-07, 11:12 PM

there are pro's and cons for and against it

As some one who as without wanting to destroyed CD's having a no cd patch can come in handy now and then. however if you hard drive dies....your screwed

its really not hard to get around needing a cd, all you need is to know you way around the internet.

I dont so much mind having to use a cd. what i really hate is how some game companys, such as Sierra put the CD keys one little tiny slips of paper that are easy to lose. finding Key generators, now thats a bit harder.....and if only they printed the CD Key onto the manual...then it would not be a problem

sorry if im ranting, but it bugs me a bit

Packerton · 08-27-07, 12:33 AM

I have no problems with people useing them if they own the game, they just make life easier then.

Pirateing is a big no no however.

BarjackU977 · 08-27-07, 12:51 AM

Easier life: you don't need to swap CDs in your reader when you change of game
Longer life for your CDs: no risk of scratches (including for those CDs you leave on your desk, when your children are around)
They sometimes solve protection compatibility problems with your PC/DVD reader, which prevent you to play even with a genuine disk.
Improved game loading time: you save a couple of seconds that a protection takes just to check the disk in the reader
Some rare protections even mess with system files of your Operating sustem, which is unacceptable (Starforce, or some music CDs) ; one of those protections happened to bring a vulnerability in the OS.

Only advantages. But they also happen to be the target of the most bad-intentioned pirates: some include viruses, trojans in those patches, sometimes to simply steal your genuine CD key to play online instead of you.

The sad thing is that the video gaming industry puts CD protections to fight a high level of piracy. And that is because of those people playing without paying that genuine customers also happen to suffer from those protections. Yet, some protections became so technically complex that they happen to cause problems that can be solved by a no-cd, nowadays. That's a weird situation.

I buy every game I play, because devs deserve a salary for their work, because I want to reward them and I want them to go on developing games.
Without customers, there wouldn't be so many grat games being developed. There just would be a few free titles, maybe.

Heibges · 08-27-07, 01:02 AM

Company of Heroes is playable out of the box without the DVD in the drive.

BarjackU977 · 08-27-07, 01:12 AM

For me, the perfect game, from a protetion perspective, would be:

a game that I can still play in 10 years on a new computer, if I want (no online activation: you don't depend on the availability of activation servers to be able to play)
a game that can be played from the HDD, without CD
A game that requires a registered, valid account with a genuine key to play.

But for the moment, only "pure Online" games match those requirements.
I think it can't be done for SP games. I see no technical solution for the moment

joegrundman · 08-27-07, 02:06 AM

I think publishers could do a compromise situation. For example, they could arrange it such that you only have to put the CD in on every 5th occasion that you start the game. And after, say, 50 game starts it could just accept that you are a genuine owner and stop requesting the CD altogether.

This would reduce wear and tear dramatically and thereby lengthen the average CD lifespan.

ReM · 08-27-07, 02:13 AM

I use a NO CD for EVERY game I own. I have done so for a long time. I can still remember wanting to install Delta Force again (man, did I spend a lot of time online snipering koth games) but not being able to get it done because the CD was scratched. From that day on it was NO CD patches and I haven't had any trouble since.....

After installation, my cd's leave the comp to the security of the jewel case, never to leave again, except for reinstalls. They remain in pristine condition.

CapnMike U-69 · 08-27-07, 04:32 AM

I just (2 weeks ago) had a friend buy a real/original SH3 in Germany for me, and it was already patched to version 1.4, and after installation (Intel Apple Mac) I ejected the DVD out of the drive. Cost was Euro 19.99 in a small town high-street store. Dead easy to install GWX over - even for a total Windows idiot like me !

I guess it will never have to go in my computer again (unless I need a re-install) 'cos I've screwed up the mods somehow !

I have also managed to make a back-up copy of it (ONLY for my own personal use) without any trouble at all - and tested it by installing on my machine at work (for when I'm not busy, and lunchbreaks etc you know!!)

Happy Huntin'
CapnMike

08-26-07, 09:30 AM	#1
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	So Im a dinosaur and dont get it. Being Genuine twentieth century man I am a little fuzzy on some of the subtlety's of the future. could someone please fill me in What I dont understand is what is so useful about a no cd patch outside of piracy? that is to say what legitimate function is there for it? __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

08-26-07, 09:49 AM	#2
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	MM I don't think you will get an answer in this question. Let's say it's too delicate __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

08-26-07, 10:04 AM	#4
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Why should it be delicate? After all Ubisoft decided to bundle SH4 patch 1.3 with a nocd patch. Why would they do that if they didn't acknowledge that it makes life easier? I ask you, having patched SH4 to 1.3, do you still want to use the CD? My last SH3 DVD broke from over use. I've had to buy the game again. Thankfully it's not very expensive, but if it had happened when it was still on first release price, i'd be less than thrilled. It was a hassle enough to get it shipped out to me as I live in Tokyo, and the price of the Japanese edition was just too much. In addition, my DVD drive gets tired of being opened and closed all the time. Every now and again it throws a connection and then I have to reboot my PC. I guess I should fix it somehow. Finally, my 18month old daughter just LOVES to play with my CD's left lying around, or extracted from the DVD drive, while I'm focused on nailing that Grosse Ladung. None of these things cause problems for me when playing SH4, but I'm just not into that game quite so much....so yeah...I'd love for Ubisoft to release an official nocd patch. They've already done it for the expensive SH4, so why not for the budget price SH3? Still, I'm a little bit curious as to WHY they released a nocd patch for SH4... __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

08-26-07, 10:07 AM	#5
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys I just feel a little Naive somedays. Oh good point well at least im in touch with my feelings. __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

08-26-07, 11:12 PM	#8
StarFox Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 216 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	there are pro's and cons for and against it As some one who as without wanting to destroyed CD's having a no cd patch can come in handy now and then. however if you hard drive dies....your screwed its really not hard to get around needing a cd, all you need is to know you way around the internet. I dont so much mind having to use a cd. what i really hate is how some game companys, such as Sierra put the CD keys one little tiny slips of paper that are easy to lose. finding Key generators, now thats a bit harder.....and if only they printed the CD Key onto the manual...then it would not be a problem sorry if im ranting, but it bugs me a bit __________________ Devoted fan of the SS United States, America's Flagship! I dream of her second life....

08-26-07, 09:56 AM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	The number 1 reason 'a friend of mine' likes to use them is that the CD/DVD disc is preserved. The 'friend of mine' have had numerous occasions where he have been going thru his games and found some very good old game he wants to play again, so he inserts the disc to his drive just to notice that it is too scratched to be used anymore. Besides, it's easier than to make a backup of the disc (AFAIK, everyone has a right to make 1 backup of the disc you have purchased).

08-26-07, 10:03 PM	#7
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	AFAIK most "backups" of disks are unplayable without a No CD patch anyway.

08-27-07, 12:33 AM	#9
Packerton Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newfoundland,Canada Posts: 398 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I have no problems with people useing them if they own the game, they just make life easier then. Pirateing is a big no no however.

08-27-07, 12:51 AM	#10
BarjackU977 Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 97 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Easier life: you don't need to swap CDs in your reader when you change of game Longer life for your CDs: no risk of scratches (including for those CDs you leave on your desk, when your children are around) They sometimes solve protection compatibility problems with your PC/DVD reader, which prevent you to play even with a genuine disk. Improved game loading time: you save a couple of seconds that a protection takes just to check the disk in the reader Some rare protections even mess with system files of your Operating sustem, which is unacceptable (Starforce, or some music CDs) ; one of those protections happened to bring a vulnerability in the OS. Only advantages. But they also happen to be the target of the most bad-intentioned pirates: some include viruses, trojans in those patches, sometimes to simply steal your genuine CD key to play online instead of you. The sad thing is that the video gaming industry puts CD protections to fight a high level of piracy. And that is because of those people playing without paying that genuine customers also happen to suffer from those protections. Yet, some protections became so technically complex that they happen to cause problems that can be solved by a no-cd, nowadays. That's a weird situation. I buy every game I play, because devs deserve a salary for their work, because I want to reward them and I want them to go on developing games. Without customers, there wouldn't be so many grat games being developed. There just would be a few free titles, maybe.

08-27-07, 01:02 AM	#11
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Company of Heroes is playable out of the box without the DVD in the drive. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

08-27-07, 01:12 AM	#12
BarjackU977 Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 97 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	For me, the perfect game, from a protetion perspective, would be: a game that I can still play in 10 years on a new computer, if I want (no online activation: you don't depend on the availability of activation servers to be able to play) a game that can be played from the HDD, without CD A game that requires a registered, valid account with a genuine key to play. But for the moment, only "pure Online" games match those requirements. I think it can't be done for SP games. I see no technical solution for the moment

08-27-07, 02:06 AM	#13
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I think publishers could do a compromise situation. For example, they could arrange it such that you only have to put the CD in on every 5th occasion that you start the game. And after, say, 50 game starts it could just accept that you are a genuine owner and stop requesting the CD altogether. This would reduce wear and tear dramatically and thereby lengthen the average CD lifespan. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

08-27-07, 02:13 AM	#14
ReM Commodore Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Brewsky, Galore Posts: 618 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I use a NO CD for EVERY game I own. I have done so for a long time. I can still remember wanting to install Delta Force again (man, did I spend a lot of time online snipering koth games) but not being able to get it done because the CD was scratched. From that day on it was NO CD patches and I haven't had any trouble since..... After installation, my cd's leave the comp to the security of the jewel case, never to leave again, except for reinstalls. They remain in pristine condition. __________________ Daddy cool

08-27-07, 04:32 AM	#15
CapnMike U-69 Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 36 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	SH3 patched to 1.4 I just (2 weeks ago) had a friend buy a real/original SH3 in Germany for me, and it was already patched to version 1.4, and after installation (Intel Apple Mac) I ejected the DVD out of the drive. Cost was Euro 19.99 in a small town high-street store. Dead easy to install GWX over - even for a total Windows idiot like me ! I guess it will never have to go in my computer again (unless I need a re-install) 'cos I've screwed up the mods somehow ! I have also managed to make a back-up copy of it (ONLY for my own personal use) without any trouble at all - and tested it by installing on my machine at work (for when I'm not busy, and lunchbreaks etc you know!!) Happy Huntin' CapnMike