Scenario: Generation 5 Dog Pile

[JALU3]

So from equally opposite directions several aircraft all have, coincidently, the same NAV point that they need to cross at the same time. They are as follows:

• Russian SU-35 Fulcrum
• French Dassault Rafale M
• Chinese Chengdu J-10
• Swedish Saab JAS 39 Gripen
• RAF Typhoon
• Luftwaffe Typhoon
• USN F/A-18E
• USAF F-22A
• Isreali F-16I
• Japanese F-2A

Well, they all see each other on Radar, and they decide to fight it out in a big multinational wargame, no actual missiles or bullets fired. Each fighter for themselves

Now the question is, who would come out on top?
And Have I missed any aircraft that would be good Generation 4.5 or Generation 5 fighters?

[CCIP]

Tricky to judge, there's a lot we don't know about these birds! Surely none of the forces operating them are to keen to disclose some of the teething troubles that I suspect any given one of these would be having :hmm:

I think we had a thread like this before and it was claimed the F-22 would outmatch any of those, odds between 2:1 (against something like Eurofighter) and 5:1 (Su-35). But that's if we believe what the Americans say about it :p

Personally, I think the newer-generation Sukhoi planes are gonna be a mean beast. Let's not forget they are derived from perhaps the most efficient and proven airframe design of all the choices, and probably have the most impressive manueverability. They're not quite up to par as far as avionics, but they're getting there.

I think the F-22 will still rip up any of those from long enough range, but assuming a Su-35 costs a mere fraction of the Raptor and still stands a decent chance against it... :hmm:
At close range - I think the Su-35 will outdo anyone. It's all the juice that the classic Flanker had, plus better thrust vectoring than any competitor, plus years and years of experience with helmet-mounted sights for aiming effective off-boresight missiles. Too bad (for the Flanker) that very little of air combat is this up-close anymore...


PS - A really big question along with this should be side-by-side comparisons of the missiles these birds use! And again we don't know that much about them in detail. If anything, I think the respecitve MRMs and SRMs these babies use are good matches for each other.

[TteFAboB]

The Pilot who avoids the fight the most. Really, let them eat each other out, tire themselves out and kill their energy while you remain fresh and on top, ready to bite the last survivor. But if any other pilot decides to take on you first rather than anybody else, the plan is doomed, unless you can beat him. Avoid this, or have an inferior opponent attack you, and you win in an F-16.

[AntEater]

RAF and Luftwaffe Typhoons are the same aircraft, especially now that the RAF decided to use the cannon as well.
The only difference would be the short range AAM, the RAF uses ASRAAM, while the Luftwaffe uses IRIS-T.

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by AntEater

RAF and Luftwaffe Typhoons are the same aircraft, especially now that the RAF decided to use the cannon as well.
The only difference would be the short range AAM, the RAF uses ASRAAM, while the Luftwaffe uses IRIS-T.

Exactly . . . but I put them both up there, because their air forces both have considereable experience . . . and they use the same plane . . . but I image that their training doctrine would have an effect on which of the two would be "better"

This wasn't ment to be an easy question . . . but would make a great airshow piece say in Paris

[AntEater]

How about the Sukhoi T-50?

[Jimbuna]

I'll go for the RAF Typhoon, based mainly on pilot training. now that should open up the debate

[UglyMowgli]

The french pilot eject with a big white parachute, the Chinesse J-10 is recall home because of lead paint content in the plane (FDA recall notice 73-2007-275), the F22 plot fire to the F18 (to the inquiry court he said :' I beleive it was a Taliban', he got a promotion and retired month after as colonel ), the Japanese kamikaze himself on the F22 (his granfather was kill in Okinawa)
The Swedish take high altitude and remain neutral,he take count of all loss; the Luftwaffe and RAF kill each other in a fierce duel, the Isrealian pilot look on the ground for Hizzbollah weapon cache and go back home, he find nothing.

[Weigh-Man]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

The french pilot eject with a big white parachute, the Chinesse J-10 is recall home because of lead paint content in the plane (FDA recall notice 73-2007-275), the F22 plot fire to the F18 (to the inquiry court he said :' I beleive it was a Taliban', he got a promotion and retired month after as colonel ), the Japanese kamikaze himself on the F22 (his granfather was kill in Okinawa)
The Swedish take high altitude and remain neutral,he take count of all loss; the Luftwaffe and RAF kill each other in a fierce duel, the Isrealian pilot look on the ground for Hizzbollah weapon cache and go back home, he find nothing.

:rotfl::rotfl:

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by AntEater

How about the Sukhoi T-50?
http://www.npo-saturn.ru/%21new/inc/...jpg&s=1024&a=0

Yes, I've read about it . . . but it's not even at Prototype stage . . . thus I didn't include it. All the other planes have flown, and/or are in active duty service with their respective forces.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

The french pilot eject with a big white parachute, the Chinesse J-10 is recall home because of lead paint content in the plane (FDA recall notice 73-2007-275), the F22 plot fire to the F18 (to the inquiry court he said :' I beleive it was a Taliban', he got a promotion and retired month after as colonel ), the Japanese kamikaze himself on the F22 (his granfather was kill in Okinawa)
The Swedish take high altitude and remain neutral,he take count of all loss; the Luftwaffe and RAF kill each other in a fierce duel, the Isrealian pilot look on the ground for Hizzbollah weapon cache and go back home, he find nothing.

LMAO :rotfl:

[Heibges]

Are they laden or unladen jets?

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

The french pilot eject with a big white parachute,

I guess you could call that preempt. Pretty smart.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Russian SU-35 Fulcrum

I think your confusing two diffrent aircraft the MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-35 Flanker.

Oh and you forgot the F/A-35 Lightining II.

As for who would come out on top I think which ever pilot was in the optimum position after the first missile salvo would win. Just who would that be? Well could be any of them with so many aircraft each trying to win (assuming none work together) it come down to luck and who has the fewiest missiles fired at it.

If you played this battle out a hundred times each aircraft would win at least once. :hmm:

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I think your confusing two diffrent aircraft the MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-35 Flanker.

Oh and you forgot the F/A-35 Lightining II.

As for who would come out on top I think which ever pilot was in the optimum position after the first missile salvo would win. Just who would that be? Well could be any of them with so many aircraft each trying to win (assuming none work together) it come down to luck and who has the fewiest missiles fired at it.

If you played this battle out a hundred times each aircraft would win at least once. :hmm:

Your right, the SU-35 is the most modern, operational version, of the SU-27 series . . . the SU-37 is still in EMD phase correct?