Ever seen a military jet Hover that is not VSTOL capable?

[SUBMAN1]

Seems you can hover in an F-22

-S

[fatty]

Cool vid, I think the F-15 may have been the first fighter to have a T:W > 1 to maintain speed in a vertical climb, I might be wrong.

[JALU3]

Again, has the F-22 ever been in a Red Flag wargame against a SU-35 or similar aircraft . . . if so, does anyone know if there is video or AARs of the engagement?

Because I have read posting on other boards about F-14s v F-15s and other such wargame engagements.

[TteFAboB]

That looks incredibly fun. Is there an F-22 for FSX that can do that?

[Steel_Tomb]

Bah, F-22...the USAF doesn't want to play with RAF Typhoons now after one of them successfully locked an F-22 from long distance. The F-22's went home crying that they were "unstealthed" and the US Gov't decided not to play with the RAF anymore lol .

Don't ask me for proof of this, because I can't rememeber where I read it from (I visit a lot of forums!) but it was mentioned in an RAF report.

[Kapitan]

I have seen a SU35 go almost verticle into a hover put its gear down then land on a short runway saw that at an airshow in st petersburg, and some of the monovers they can do.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Bah, F-22...the USAF doesn't want to play with RAF Typhoons now after one of them successfully locked an F-22 from long distance. The F-22's went home crying that they were "unstealthed" and the US Gov't decided not to play with the RAF anymore lol .

Don't ask me for proof of this, because I can't rememeber where I read it from (I visit a lot of forums!) but it was mentioned in an RAF report.

Short answer 'during take off'.
Might have been from this:
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mil...vs-f-22-a.html

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Short answer 'during take off'.
Might have been from this:
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mil...vs-f-22-a.html

Probably right - lots a romors I see. THe only time it can probably be seen is during the firing of a missile - already too late for the Typhoon, or during take / landing when the gear is extended. Both scenarios are of a time when the Raptor is not being stealthy.

Steel Tomb - Trust me, the US Gov doesn't have any issue playing with your boys. To me I bet it is more a case of the B-2 - they value their toys because they are so expensive and don't risk them for every little wargame that comes along. Losing one is a great loss since not many exist.

-S

'Hovering' like that may be cool and all, but I'm not sure where it would come in handy during combat. Seems to me that if it was tried during a fight the a/c wouldn't be around very long. Unless I'm missing something 'speed is life'.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

'Hovering' like that may be cool and all, but I'm not sure where it would come in handy during combat. Seems to me that if it was tried during a fight the a/c wouldn't be around very long. Unless I'm missing something 'speed is life'.

Speed used to be life, but now with thrust vectoring and massive amounts of power, it has become an ability of getting your nose to point the direction you want on a moments notice. Speed used to translate into rate of rate of turn in degrees per second to get on an enemies tail, but now that is not so neccesary anymore since you can simply just point the nose. Couple this aircraft to the Aim-9X with 120 degrees of high off boresight capability (helmet cued to kill where the pilot looks), and how can you fight and even begin to win against it? You can't! His nose is on you and a missile is in the air long before you can react.

One manuver that is more impressive than most any other is the flat spin where he is faliing straight down, but just swiviling the nose in 360 degrees of rotation - pointing it anywhere he wants. This aircraft can do whatever it wants. How can you follow something like that?

This is simply its dogfight capability. This is not touching on its apeture scan radar, super cruise capability, stealth capability, nothing.

The only way to possibly even see this thing on radar is from the side, and that is going to be difficult. Coming or going, no one can see it.

-S

[micky1up]

you can in a a10 warthog becasue it has such a low stall speed

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Speed used to be life, but now with thrust vectoring and massive amounts of power, it has become an ability of getting your nose to point the direction you want on a moments notice. Speed used to translate into rate of rate of turn in degrees per second to get on an enemies tail, but now that is not so neccesary anymore since you can simply just point the nose. Couple this aircraft to the Aim-9X with 120 degrees of high off boresight capability (helmet cued to kill where the pilot looks), and how can you fight and even begin to win against it? You can't! His nose is on you and a missile is in the air long before you can react.

One manuver that is more impressive than most any other is the flat spin where he is faliing straight down, but just swiviling the nose in 360 degrees of rotation - pointing it anywhere he wants. This aircraft can do whatever it wants. How can you follow something like that?

This is simply its dogfight capability. This is not touching on its apeture scan radar, super cruise capability, stealth capability, nothing.

The only way to possibly even see this thing on radar is from the side, and that is going to be difficult. Coming or going, no one can see it.

-S

OK, but nothing you said makes hovering a good tactic in a fight.

[XabbaRus]

While I was in Moscow I was watching a live news report from the run up to MAKS and they should an SU-35 do a practice run. It did an amazing maneuver where basically it did a very slow flat spin in total control and when it exited to normal flight it was in a totally controlled manner not the sometimes wobbly way they drop out of some moves.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by waste gate

OK, but nothing you said makes hovering a good tactic in a fight.

I don't think it is, but the point I guess he was making was that many of today's jets have very powerful engines which help out in close quarters. And with a T:W > 1 as I said, they can do flashy things just for fun like appear to hover.

Originally Posted by fatty

I don't think it is, but the point I guess he was making was that many of today's jets have very powerful engines which help out in close quarters. And with a T:W > 1 as I said, they can do flashy things just for fun like appear to hover.

The F-15 has a T:W > 1. It can accelerate in the vertical. This is not a new capability. Perhaps the thrust vectoring allows the hover, which is a nice airshow trick but of limited value in ACM where energy controll is the key to survival close in.