Super-duper escorts

HMCS · 08-06-07, 06:05 PM

I was stalking a task force for a shot at a BB for the first time ever, which made this all the more ANNOYING...

A Hunt II came barrelling at me, pinging away with ASDIC at 18 kts.

Pardon-moi. I thought that that was too fast for either passive or active sensors.

hale4ua · 08-06-07, 06:11 PM

I've had a very similar problem, and quite a number of times. That's when I usually send an acoustic torpedo the escort's way. A few short seconds later my problem with the escort is over.

STEED · 08-06-07, 06:12 PM

He was trying to make you crap your pants and do something which would be very helpful to him.

Kpt. Lehmann · 08-06-07, 06:57 PM

HMCS I'm guessing that he first got a hydrophone fix on you and then raced like heck to your "last plotted" location to reaquire you with shorter ranged ASDIC.

(We can't make them stop pinging on the way to the "last plotted U-boat position" though.... SH3 quirk.)

The high speed of the escort in question is certainly a great hindrance in his effort to detect you due to white noise.

In general though, ASDIC is less affected by upper level water noise than hydrophones.

In real life, ASW detection devices would be retracted back into the escort's hull at speeds of 15 kts or better. (Generally speaking) The risk was having said devices torn free by hydrodynamic forces impressed upon them above speeds of 15kts.

Technically, they could still listen to hydrophones/sonar at high speed in RL... but the usefulness of doing so... and successful plotting, is another matter.

Still, when you play DiD... any time you see that DD make a beeline for you through the scopes... with that bone in his teeth... it is suspenseful every time.

HMCS · 08-06-07, 08:16 PM

This cat picked me up at 18 kts, on his beam. I was at periscope depth, speed 4 kts. He was 2000 yds away or so. And no, my scope was down. I'm very good with the 'scope, I don't leave it up for long @ all.

I have a hard time with that one.

I guess "realism" is relative. C'est la guerre.

Kpt. Lehmann · 08-06-07, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMCS

This cat picked me up at 18 kts, on his beam. I was at periscope depth, speed 4 kts. He was 2000 yds away or so. And no, my scope was down. I'm very good with the 'scope, I don't leave it up for long @ all.

I have a hard time with that one.

I guess "realism" is relative. C'est la guerre.

At 4kts, and 2000m you can definately be heard by hydrophones given the right conditions.

You aren't simply automatically detected.

What was your aspect ratio in reference to the searching unit?

Did you fire T1 steamers?

Were you running silent? (4 kts implies that you were not.)

What was the sea state.

There are too many unanswered questions here for you to state that the sensors are modelled by us arbitrarily or for you to imply that we just modelled these things haphazardly with disregard to realism.

gimpy117 · 08-06-07, 09:19 PM

yeah, kinnda annoying isn't it

headcase · 08-06-07, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Still, when you play DiD... any time you see that DD make a beeline for you through the scopes... with that bone in his teeth... it is suspenseful every time.

Suspensful my unshaven sternquarters. Terrifying is what it is. A Tribal coming at me full flank and hammering the active trash. Gives me grey hairs thinking about it.

GoldenRivet · 08-07-07, 12:02 AM

I love the GWX escorts!

they make me consider what will happen to good ship and crew if my approach to the convoy fails.

then they make me consider what will happen to good ship and crew if im too careless in gathering target data.

then they make me wonder what will happen to good ship and crew if i maneuver to wrecklessly while lining up for the shot.

once the shot works out they make me wonder if im egressing smartly (getting the F outta dodge without making a lot of noise)

more often than not im detected at some later phase of the engagement and these buggers force me down to 230 - 240 meters as we play a deadly game of hide and seek... fortunately over several years of playing sub sims... i have learned how to turn my U-boat into a church mouse hiding quietly in the darkest corner of hell.

that lesson did not come easy over the years.

GWX - first the test... then the lesson!

HMCS · 08-07-07, 01:02 AM

Variables, shmariables.

A DDE going at full tilt (18kts) would be lucky to hear anything. Remember, we are talking about 60 years ago. The technology is not what it is now. Next time I am at the Legion on Remem. day, I will have to try to track down an old asdic operator and see what he says. I know that the U-Boat cats were certainly contacted and interviewed about development of the game, but I don't think that they talked to too many escort crewmen.

I'm done with this, just going to live with it.

It's just a GAME for pete's sake.

Otto Von Bismark · 08-07-07, 09:34 AM

haha i had the problem in Med lol, came across a British Battlegroup of 3 battleships (King George V, Rodney and Nelson) 2 cruisers, and some destroyers. Peeeerrrfeccct weather

, so i make my move ...all ahead slow - rig for silent running. Then PING........PING...... PING....PING..PING i quickly turn my pere- round and there was one of those damn Hunt II destroyer's speeding towards me pull pelt!..i was going too slow to make any considerable depth and she runs across me, hitting my flak guns with her hull, only damaging them, then to my luck the depth charges where set too shallow so didn’t cause much damage, and to make things even better, they blew off the depth charge rack ! HAHA she didn’t pester me for much longer !.

Considering i was ahead of the group, i sat and waited for the BB column to come by King George V first..Fired Torpedo 1 (450 metres)...direct hit on the engine room, she slows to a complete stop, the other ships start manuver N.W, so i move ahead flank turning in the same direction… but 2nd BB in the line was speeding away and judging by my angle the torp would have bounced off , but i manage to get close to the 3rd BB (fire 3 shots frm 500m) 2 of which hit, grinding her to halt, thankfully the rest of the escorts follow the BB that got away, leaving me with 1 BB dead in the water and 1 managing only 6 knots, bow in the water.

I moved in and fired 2 more torps at the Rodney class BB thus sinking her, and then moved back to the King George, positioned myself perfectly, at 700 metres, then PING PING again, i thought i lost all the Destroyers, just as well there was only this 1 straggler, i knew that from her distance from me i could quickly fire my last torpedo at the BB,so i fire it at 700 metres, and watch from my periscope, then to my horror, i see it come directly between me and the BB, in the line of fire of my torp MY LAST TROP !..boom..the Destroyer was no more.. i was most annoyed ! because it was looking that the BB wouldn’t sink and was still pretty much manned at all guns..putting me off from surfacing.

I slowly slip away somewhat disappointed...then at my complete surprise 10 minutes later, the navigator has identified the BB as sunk, the icon appearing on the map !,

2 BBs sunk, and 1 DD,.. and i lived to tell the tale!
- Jesus that has to be the luckiest patrols ive done, although it could have gone all the other way had the Destroyers and their Escorts had their way..one very fortunate skipper indeed !

Heibges · 08-07-07, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMCS

I was stalking a task force for a shot at a BB for the first time ever, which made this all the more ANNOYING...

A Hunt II came barrelling at me, pinging away with ASDIC at 18 kts.

Pardon-moi. I thought that that was too fast for either passive or active sensors.

They are driving you, like they try to do to Ramius.

joea · 08-07-07, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMCS

Variables, shmariables.

.

Kpt. Lehmann · 08-07-07, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMCS

Variables, shmariables.

.

Yeah, looking at his post history... he's already made the statement that he likes to stir the pot. He's just stuffing popcorn in his face.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119585

and here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=29

Just another griefer.

@HMCS, here's a thought... GWX didn't cost you anything. Why don't you just take it off your hard drive and be done with it. You were given constructive responses. I don't have time for people who ignore them.

I'm inclined to believe that you simply weren't as stealthy as you thought you were.

Mooncatt · 08-07-07, 01:08 PM

well any attacks i carry out (or try to) on conyoys, task forces or a flock of seagulls, i never travel above 2 knts and always silent running from below 7000 range. above that range i can travel a little faster 4-5knts, but you just have to be as silent as possible. imo 4 knts at 2000 range is too noisy, silent running automatically reduces your speed to what is assumed is relatively silent (3 knts) i drop down to 2 knts to be sure.
if you use this technic you might find you can get very close without being detected (ive got as close as 1000 and still not been picked up) you just have to hope that your intercept calculations have been precise, if not then its start all over again time.

08-06-07, 06:05 PM	#1
HMCS Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Squaresville, daddy-O. Posts: 394 Downloads: 186 Uploads: 0	Super-duper escorts I was stalking a task force for a shot at a BB for the first time ever, which made this all the more ANNOYING... A Hunt II came barrelling at me, pinging away with ASDIC at 18 kts. Pardon-moi. I thought that that was too fast for either passive or active sensors. __________________ "Turning enemy ships into marine habitat since 1986!" Mods Loaded:TMO 2.2, RSRDC, MaxOptics, Strategic Map Symbols, Stop The Shouting OR: RFB, RSRDC, Maxoptics, SCAF, Strategic Map Symbols and the sanity-saving "stop the shouting".

08-06-07, 06:12 PM	#3
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	He was trying to make you crap your pants and do something which would be very helpful to him. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

08-06-07, 06:57 PM	#4
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,992 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	HMCS I'm guessing that he first got a hydrophone fix on you and then raced like heck to your "last plotted" location to reaquire you with shorter ranged ASDIC. (We can't make them stop pinging on the way to the "last plotted U-boat position" though.... SH3 quirk.) The high speed of the escort in question is certainly a great hindrance in his effort to detect you due to white noise. In general though, ASDIC is less affected by upper level water noise than hydrophones. In real life, ASW detection devices would be retracted back into the escort's hull at speeds of 15 kts or better. (Generally speaking) The risk was having said devices torn free by hydrodynamic forces impressed upon them above speeds of 15kts. Technically, they could still listen to hydrophones/sonar at high speed in RL... but the usefulness of doing so... and successful plotting, is another matter. Still, when you play DiD... any time you see that DD make a beeline for you through the scopes... with that bone in his teeth... it is suspenseful every time. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

08-06-07, 08:16 PM	#5
HMCS Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Squaresville, daddy-O. Posts: 394 Downloads: 186 Uploads: 0	This cat picked me up at 18 kts, on his beam. I was at periscope depth, speed 4 kts. He was 2000 yds away or so. And no, my scope was down. I'm very good with the 'scope, I don't leave it up for long @ all. I have a hard time with that one. I guess "realism" is relative. C'est la guerre. __________________ "Turning enemy ships into marine habitat since 1986!" Mods Loaded:TMO 2.2, RSRDC, MaxOptics, Strategic Map Symbols, Stop The Shouting OR: RFB, RSRDC, Maxoptics, SCAF, Strategic Map Symbols and the sanity-saving "stop the shouting".

08-07-07, 12:02 AM	#9
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I love the GWX escorts! they make me consider what will happen to good ship and crew if my approach to the convoy fails. then they make me consider what will happen to good ship and crew if im too careless in gathering target data. then they make me wonder what will happen to good ship and crew if i maneuver to wrecklessly while lining up for the shot. once the shot works out they make me wonder if im egressing smartly (getting the F outta dodge without making a lot of noise) more often than not im detected at some later phase of the engagement and these buggers force me down to 230 - 240 meters as we play a deadly game of hide and seek... fortunately over several years of playing sub sims... i have learned how to turn my U-boat into a church mouse hiding quietly in the darkest corner of hell. that lesson did not come easy over the years. GWX - first the test... then the lesson! __________________

08-06-07, 06:11 PM	#2
hale4ua Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Walker County, Alabama Posts: 9 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I've had a very similar problem, and quite a number of times. That's when I usually send an acoustic torpedo the escort's way. A few short seconds later my problem with the escort is over.

08-06-07, 09:19 PM	#7
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	yeah, kinnda annoying isn't it

08-07-07, 01:02 AM	#10
HMCS Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Squaresville, daddy-O. Posts: 394 Downloads: 186 Uploads: 0	Variables, shmariables. A DDE going at full tilt (18kts) would be lucky to hear anything. Remember, we are talking about 60 years ago. The technology is not what it is now. Next time I am at the Legion on Remem. day, I will have to try to track down an old asdic operator and see what he says. I know that the U-Boat cats were certainly contacted and interviewed about development of the game, but I don't think that they talked to too many escort crewmen. I'm done with this, just going to live with it. It's just a GAME for pete's sake. __________________ "Turning enemy ships into marine habitat since 1986!" Mods Loaded:TMO 2.2, RSRDC, MaxOptics, Strategic Map Symbols, Stop The Shouting OR: RFB, RSRDC, Maxoptics, SCAF, Strategic Map Symbols and the sanity-saving "stop the shouting".

08-07-07, 09:34 AM	#11
Otto Von Bismark Watch Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-45 Currant Location: Gibraltar Harbour Posts: 23 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	haha i had the problem in Med lol, came across a British Battlegroup of 3 battleships (King George V, Rodney and Nelson) 2 cruisers, and some destroyers. Peeeerrrfeccct weather , so i make my move ...all ahead slow - rig for silent running. Then PING........PING...... PING....PING..PING i quickly turn my pere- round and there was one of those damn Hunt II destroyer's speeding towards me pull pelt!..i was going too slow to make any considerable depth and she runs across me, hitting my flak guns with her hull, only damaging them, then to my luck the depth charges where set too shallow so didn’t cause much damage, and to make things even better, they blew off the depth charge rack ! HAHA she didn’t pester me for much longer !. Considering i was ahead of the group, i sat and waited for the BB column to come by King George V first..Fired Torpedo 1 (450 metres)...direct hit on the engine room, she slows to a complete stop, the other ships start manuver N.W, so i move ahead flank turning in the same direction… but 2nd BB in the line was speeding away and judging by my angle the torp would have bounced off , but i manage to get close to the 3rd BB (fire 3 shots frm 500m) 2 of which hit, grinding her to halt, thankfully the rest of the escorts follow the BB that got away, leaving me with 1 BB dead in the water and 1 managing only 6 knots, bow in the water. I moved in and fired 2 more torps at the Rodney class BB thus sinking her, and then moved back to the King George, positioned myself perfectly, at 700 metres, then PING PING again, i thought i lost all the Destroyers, just as well there was only this 1 straggler, i knew that from her distance from me i could quickly fire my last torpedo at the BB,so i fire it at 700 metres, and watch from my periscope, then to my horror, i see it come directly between me and the BB, in the line of fire of my torp MY LAST TROP !..boom..the Destroyer was no more.. i was most annoyed ! because it was looking that the BB wouldn’t sink and was still pretty much manned at all guns..putting me off from surfacing. I slowly slip away somewhat disappointed...then at my complete surprise 10 minutes later, the navigator has identified the BB as sunk, the icon appearing on the map !, 2 BBs sunk, and 1 DD,.. and i lived to tell the tale! - Jesus that has to be the luckiest patrols ive done, although it could have gone all the other way had the Destroyers and their Escorts had their way..one very fortunate skipper indeed !

08-07-07, 01:08 PM	#15
Mooncatt Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Keighley UK Posts: 938 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	well any attacks i carry out (or try to) on conyoys, task forces or a flock of seagulls, i never travel above 2 knts and always silent running from below 7000 range. above that range i can travel a little faster 4-5knts, but you just have to be as silent as possible. imo 4 knts at 2000 range is too noisy, silent running automatically reduces your speed to what is assumed is relatively silent (3 knts) i drop down to 2 knts to be sure. if you use this technic you might find you can get very close without being detected (ive got as close as 1000 and still not been picked up) you just have to hope that your intercept calculations have been precise, if not then its start all over again time. __________________