[WIP] Historic Crew Names

LukeFF · 08-05-07, 12:27 AM

Yeah, this will probably go down as the most tedious, time consuming mod in the history of SH4.

Anyways, I've become pretty peeved at some of the ridiculous names used for AI crewmen, so I've decided to do something about it. Using the comprehensive list of names of all American submariners lost during WWII (from here), commissioning crew lists, medal citations, etc., I am creating what will end up being a massive list of names the game can choose from. I'm not even through the letter B yet, but already I have over 60 surnames and first names compiled so far. Beyond the typical first names (tons of Johns, Charles and Georges), there are the others you just don't ever really hear, such as:

Hermas, Hollis, and General (yes, someone named their kid General

)

and last names, including:

Beutelspacher, Boo, and Argersinger

This is going to take a long time to complete, but I vow to complete it. More news to come later.

longdog499 · 08-05-07, 06:22 AM

Great idea Luke.Who on earth thought up these names?I know you Americans come up with some pretty exotic ones sometimes but ' Alexander Wreford B Brighton' and 'Earle Teddy A Lander' ? COME ON! :rotfl:

jdkbph · 08-05-07, 10:30 AM

I think the problem with the names might go a bit deeper than just the database.

A typical US/American name will either be...

<firstname> <lastname> or...
<firstname> <middleinitial> <lastname> or...
<firstname> <middlename> <lastname> or, somewhat rarely...
<firstinitial> <middlename> <lastname>

It's pretty obvious that first names and middle names come from the NormalUSNames list, while last names come from the Surnames list. Middle initials are apparently generated by the code (I don't see a list of middle initials anywhere).

I'm guessing somewhere in the real code is a sort of name building algorithm which randomly selects an entry from each of the lists and chains them together, based on a probability for inclusion for each name element (firstname, middlename, middleinitial, lastname). Apparently, the probability for first and last names being included is 1, while middle name and middle initial are both less than 1 but greater than 0.

As a result there is a possibility of generating a combination that looks like this:

<firstname> <middlename> <middleinitial> <lastname>

If this is so, it's probably because the process is missing a step. There should be a function to exclude middle name when middle initial is selected, and vice-versa.

Or at least that's how it looks to me. And if I'm right, unless we can find whatever controls the format for building a name from those lists you're editing, we're still going to end up with silly names upwards of (apparently) 25% of the time.

JD

tater · 08-05-07, 10:44 AM

How is it the crew can have long names, but the player is limited to so few characters?

tater

Sailor Steve · 08-05-07, 02:39 PM

Well done, LukeFF! JScones put something similar into SH3 Commander, but he was allowed to use Uboat.net's database of all known u-boatmen (at least I think that's what he said).

This will be good to see; I'm just glad it's you doing it and not me.:rotfl:

LukeFF · 08-05-07, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkbph

I think the problem with the names might go a bit deeper than just the database...

Yes, I wish there was a way to fix the issue of such lonnnnnng names being generated by the game. Of all the names I've come across so far in the loss list, only one or two names so far have four parts in it. I'll look into it, but I think it's something hardcoded.

JScones · 08-05-07, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well done, LukeFF! JScones put something similar into SH3 Commander, but he was allowed to use Uboat.net's database of all known u-boatmen (at least I think that's what he said).

I obtained the names from www.ubootwaffe.net (with permission of course). 40,454 first names and 41,786 last names, meaning 1.7+ billion random crew name possibilities.

Note, in my list duplicate names were included to reflect commonality. I assume that will also be the case here? Otherwise Hermis will appear just as much as John.

One problem you may have to watch out for are created names being too long for the game display. In SH3Cmdr, I tested the resulting name to make sure that it wasn't longer than SH3's display width. Without such a test, long names may run the risk of appearing truncated. Not a biggy, just something to watch out for.

Fearless · 08-05-07, 10:47 PM

Hmmm!! maybe sticking to just <firstname><lastname> will cover it. The spaces between the names are counted as well.

LukeFF · 08-06-07, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

Note, in my list duplicate names were included to reflect commonality. I assume that will also be the case here? Otherwise Hermis will appear just as much as John.

Very good idea, but I'm so far along in the project now that I don't want to restart it. Ol' Hermie will have to be just as common as John.

JScones · 08-06-07, 02:31 AM

Hope you don't mind, I compiled a list of first names for you from the web page you linked, in comma separated format (let me know if you want it any other way)... http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/FirstNames.7z

Took about 10 mins with the right tools.

Will do the surnames if you want too.

The rest is then up to you.

JScones · 08-06-07, 02:49 AM

And surnames... http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/LastNames.7z

That's 3564 first names x 3616 surnames.

Quick and dirty, so you'll need to go through and remove any crap and do some general QA (just noticed a "struck in head" surname still there and a comma after the last first name), but hopefully it will save you some time. All the obvious junk has been removed.

I excluded middle names from the first name list, but can pop them back in if you wish.

Or feel free to discard the lot and continue doing what you are doing.

Enjoy!

LukeFF · 08-06-07, 04:22 PM

Wow, JS! Thanks a bunch!

Quote:

Took about 10 mins with the right tools.

What exactly would those be? :hmm:

LukeFF · 08-06-07, 04:42 PM

Grr, now this is frustrating. I just combined those two files together into the proper format for the game, activated it via JSGME, and what do I get? Nothing but blank lines for the crewmember's names.

Could somebody check this file out and see if I've made a mistake somewhere in the file format?

http://files.filefront.com/Historic+.../fileinfo.html

Frederf · 08-06-07, 04:53 PM

What are the side effects when overwriting values in TM1.4 when applying this mod?

LukeFF · 08-06-07, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

What are the side effects when overwriting values in TM1.4 when applying this mod?

Nothing

And, might I add, this mod is still a WIP and a beta, as I've not got it working correctly yet. I need someone to see if there's a reason why the game isn't generating names properly with this new file.

08-05-07, 12:27 AM	#1
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	[WIP] Historic Crew Names Yeah, this will probably go down as the most tedious, time consuming mod in the history of SH4. Anyways, I've become pretty peeved at some of the ridiculous names used for AI crewmen, so I've decided to do something about it. Using the comprehensive list of names of all American submariners lost during WWII (from here), commissioning crew lists, medal citations, etc., I am creating what will end up being a massive list of names the game can choose from. I'm not even through the letter B yet, but already I have over 60 surnames and first names compiled so far. Beyond the typical first names (tons of Johns, Charles and Georges), there are the others you just don't ever really hear, such as: Hermas, Hollis, and General (yes, someone named their kid General ) and last names, including: Beutelspacher, Boo, and Argersinger This is going to take a long time to complete, but I vow to complete it. More news to come later.

08-05-07, 10:30 AM	#3
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	This is bothering me as well... I think the problem with the names might go a bit deeper than just the database. A typical US/American name will either be... <firstname> <lastname> or... <firstname> <middleinitial> <lastname> or... <firstname> <middlename> <lastname> or, somewhat rarely... <firstinitial> <middlename> <lastname> It's pretty obvious that first names and middle names come from the NormalUSNames list, while last names come from the Surnames list. Middle initials are apparently generated by the code (I don't see a list of middle initials anywhere). I'm guessing somewhere in the real code is a sort of name building algorithm which randomly selects an entry from each of the lists and chains them together, based on a probability for inclusion for each name element (firstname, middlename, middleinitial, lastname). Apparently, the probability for first and last names being included is 1, while middle name and middle initial are both less than 1 but greater than 0. As a result there is a possibility of generating a combination that looks like this: <firstname> <middlename> <middleinitial> <lastname> If this is so, it's probably because the process is missing a step. There should be a function to exclude middle name when middle initial is selected, and vice-versa. Or at least that's how it looks to me. And if I'm right, unless we can find whatever controls the format for building a name from those lists you're editing, we're still going to end up with silly names upwards of (apparently) 25% of the time. JD Last edited by jdkbph; 08-05-07 at 10:51 AM.

08-05-07, 02:39 PM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Well done, LukeFF! JScones put something similar into SH3 Commander, but he was allowed to use Uboat.net's database of all known u-boatmen (at least I think that's what he said). This will be good to see; I'm just glad it's you doing it and not me.:rotfl: __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-05-07, 10:47 PM	#8
Fearless Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,047 Downloads: 340 Uploads: 1	Hmmm!! maybe sticking to just <firstname><lastname> will cover it. The spaces between the names are counted as well. __________________ Fearless System Specs: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8 Core 16 Thread CPU, 3.8GHz Base Clock, 4.7GHz Boost, 105W TDP, 32MB L3 cache \| MSI GeForce RTX3060Ti 8Gb Graphics \| Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32Gb (2x16Gb) 3200 MHz CL16 DDR4 Ram \| Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe SSD 1TB \| Seagate Barracuda 2.5in 2TB HDD \| AOC QHD 165 Hz FreeSync HDR curved 31.5in Monitor \| ASUS ROG Strix LC 240 ARGB AIO Liquid CPU Cooler White Edition \| ASUS ROG Strix Gold 750W Modular Power Supply \| Corsair iCUE 5000X RGB Tempered Glass Mid Tower Case White.

08-06-07, 02:49 AM	#11
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	And surnames... http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/LastNames.7z That's 3564 first names x 3616 surnames. Quick and dirty, so you'll need to go through and remove any crap and do some general QA (just noticed a "struck in head" surname still there and a comma after the last first name), but hopefully it will save you some time. All the obvious junk has been removed. I excluded middle names from the first name list, but can pop them back in if you wish. Or feel free to discard the lot and continue doing what you are doing. Enjoy! Last edited by JScones; 08-06-07 at 03:05 AM.

08-05-07, 06:22 AM	#2
longdog499 Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wales U.K. Posts: 119 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Great idea Luke.Who on earth thought up these names?I know you Americans come up with some pretty exotic ones sometimes but ' Alexander Wreford B Brighton' and 'Earle Teddy A Lander' ? COME ON! :rotfl:

08-05-07, 10:44 AM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	How is it the crew can have long names, but the player is limited to so few characters? tater

08-06-07, 02:31 AM	#10
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Hope you don't mind, I compiled a list of first names for you from the web page you linked, in comma separated format (let me know if you want it any other way)... http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/FirstNames.7z Took about 10 mins with the right tools. Will do the surnames if you want too. The rest is then up to you.

08-06-07, 04:42 PM	#13
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	Grr, now this is frustrating. I just combined those two files together into the proper format for the game, activated it via JSGME, and what do I get? Nothing but blank lines for the crewmember's names. Could somebody check this file out and see if I've made a mistake somewhere in the file format? http://files.filefront.com/Historic+.../fileinfo.html

08-06-07, 04:53 PM	#14
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	What are the side effects when overwriting values in TM1.4 when applying this mod?