GWX task force escort behavior

[Tom]

U-99 under command of Oberleutnant z. S. Günther Pflock has been taking part in operation Hartmut during the past days, doing her best (and actually succeeding pretty well) to intercept enemy task forces on the norwegian coast. The weather has been good for attacking task forces, with 15 m/s wind, overcast, no rain, light fog. Well, a bit too rough for magnetic detonators, but good for evading destroyers.

Which brings me to a couple of cases of destroyer behavior:

Case 1: Enemy task force with 5 destroyers, all in a single line, steaming towards Narvik at 34 knots.

U-99 fires 2 electric torpedoes from about 1500 meters off the track of the destroyers, aiming at the last and second last destroyers. One of the torpedoes explodes prematurely, the other hits the second last destroyer.

As the torpedo hits, the first three destroyers start zigzagging but continue towards their destination at full speed. The last destroyer slows down and tries to find U-99. After failing to do so, it leaves the area at full speed, in pursuit of the other three remaining destroyers.

This seemed realistic behavior to me. The destroyers were on orders to attack the german fleet at Narvik, so most of them continued. One of them stayed behind to try to destroy the u-boat in the area, or at least harass it so that it couldn't shoot any of the other destroyers. (Of course, due to the task force speed, that wasn't possible in any case.)

Case 2: Task force with Nelson battleship and 6 or 7 destroyers (honestly, I didn't count them, I focused on the Nelson), heading NEE at 20 knots, about 200 km north of Alesund.

U-99 fires a salvo of 4 torpedoes (2 steam, 2 electric, all at slow speed using impact detonators) at the Nelson, from a range of 1000 meters. Immediately after firing, she starts drifting deeper to avoid the inevitable counter attack.

The steam torpedoes are spotted, of course, and the Nelson changes course, causing 2 of the torpedoes to miss. The other two hit on the port side, one just behind the smoke stack and one just beneath the rear mast. The port screw of the Nelson stops turning, she takes a slight list, but manages to continue on one screw, zigzagging forward at about 4 knots, stern heavy in the water.

The escorting destroyers fail to find U-99 in the weather. After searching the area she was in for about 30 minutes, they continue on their original course, passing the crippled Nelson and leaving her behind!

This is what I find odd. Would destroyers really have done that, leaving a wounded battleship only able to make 4 or 5 knots alone in an area known to have an u-boat? I would've thought at least a few of them would stay with the Nelson and protect her from further attack.

Well, since they didn't, I caught up with the Nelson under water and fired a single torpedo at its starboard side, aiming between the smoke stack and rear mast. The working screw stopped, and 40 minutes later the Nelson had disappeared beneath the waves, stern first. All the while U-99 waited under water nearby, and none of the escorting destroyers returned to investigate.

Due to odd destroyer behavior, the admirality is now short one battleship. I won't complain, but am wondering if this could have really happened.

[Stealth Hunter]

About the Nelson you hit, did she eventually sink? With such a commotion and the look of the Nelson, I'd say they assumed that better lose only 1 battleship than several destroyers, so they abandoned her to her fate, assuming that she was doomed anyway.

ANOTHER add on to that situation is that it's possible the destroyer workers were novices, little short of competent, and they panicked and ran.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

About the Nelson you hit, did she eventually sink?

She eventually sank, 40 minutes after I put a third torpedo in her. Without the third one, I doubt she would've sank. The time I fired that third torpedo was about 2 hours after the first two hits (first I had to evade destoryers and then catch up with the Nelson), and her condition hadn't changed much since the very beginning.

If the destroyers had stayed in the area, I couldn't have caught up with the Nelson under water (they would've heard me), and would have been forced to surface and take a long trip around the ships for the final shot.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

ANOTHER add on to that situation is that it's possible the destroyer workers were novices, little short of competent, and they panicked and ran.

They weren't very competent, that's for sure. I fired my first salvo from within the destroyer screen, and immediately started drifting downwards at silent speed. When the first destroyer got near me, I was at less than 30 meters depth, and the destroyer didn't even attempt dropping any depth charges. During the whole escape, I didn't hear a single depth charge being dropped, or a single asdic ping.

Of course, the weather was bad for listening, with 15 m/s wind, and I was as silent as possible. They just didn't hear me at any point, so they searched the area I had fired from for 30 minutes and then gave up. I used the free camera to watch what they were doing, and noticed that at least one of them was stationary at all time, listening, while the others were moving around the area. Had I tried to use more speed to get deeper fast, things might have turned out a lot worse for me.

[Stealth Hunter]

Heh, I'd say your answer lies in the crew expierence. It is possible that they assumed you to be dead when you submerged and pulled off OR they panicked and ran off.:rotfl: Again, their skill level makes a huge difference.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

It is possible that they assumed you to be dead

Destroyer Captain: "Well, there was a submarine here, since we saw torpedoes and the Nelson was hit two times. But we can't hear a thing, so it probably just sank on its own, even without any help from our depth charges. Ok boys, case closed, let's head on with our mission."

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

About the Nelson you hit, did she eventually sink? With such a commotion and the look of the Nelson, I'd say they assumed that better lose only 1 battleship than several destroyers, so they abandoned her to her fate, assuming that she was doomed anyway.

At 4 kts it didn't have much chances. Remember that in sh3 it's a little different than in real life. If they wanted something badly, they shadowed for days to bring other wolfes to the party. So it would be sunk anyhow if it would be important to BdU, maybe by a Condor or just this sub which managed to outrun the slow group and take a good position for a final shot. Either way I would say it was lost.

[Stealth Hunter]

Possibly so.:rotfl:

AI has a tendency to go dumbass all of a sudden.

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Possibly so.:rotfl:

AI has a tendency to go dumbass all of a sudden.

But this is a whole different story Like my last patrol, DDs left the carrier alone and one by one came to a meeting with my eels... they should flank out of here...

[Stealth Hunter]

Bigger question is: did you have any left?:hmm:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Bad weather makes it harder for enemy ASW to hear you... as in RL.

Regarding the DD's leaving the BB behind... it is an SH3 issue... not a GWX problem that causes it. Some things we can fix. Some things we can't fix.

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Bigger question is: did you have any left?:hmm:

Eels? Full load

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119774

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Regarding the DD's leaving the BB behind... it is an SH3 issue... not a GWX problem that causes it. Some things we can fix. Some things we can't fix.

Actually, I suspected something like this. The task force follows its planned course and speed, leaving wounded ships behind, just like any convoy normally does. Of course, in this case, the battleship being the only 'valuable' ship, it seemed a bit odd to me. But, as has been pointed out, it might not have been unrealistic.

[Sailor Steve]

I think realistic behaviour would have been to search for the sub and try to kill it, or at least drive it away. Why? Because some of them would have definitely stayed around to try to rescue survivors. Sailors are more important than equipment any day.

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I think realistic behaviour would have been to search for the sub and try to kill it, or at least drive it away. Why? Because some of them would have definitely stayed around to try to rescue survivors. Sailors are more important than equipment any day.

True
But standing orders on the Murmansk convoys were to stop for nothing - not sure about other areas in certain times
Certain death for those in the water in around 10 minutes or less
CAM ship pilots had a very short life span if they took off
Suicide mission