SH-60 Help

[btaft]

Hi I am relatively new to DW and from some of the advice that I received earlier am starting to learn the SH-60. I have working on the Helo Demo scenario. I have been able to do the following

Basically I have been using two lines of Sonobuoys to form an array and then listening on those until the signature of the Victor III comes up. When it does I switch the two closest buoys to directional mode and get the two bearings to triangulate the position. I then wait about 10 minutes to get a second position. After that I fly to the first point and then fly along a path that goes through the second point with the MAD deployed until I get the MAD signature. This tells me that I am essentially over the top of the sub. On my last try I launched a fish and it went off on its own searching in vain well away from the Victor III. I had initially set a run out bearing about the bearing I was traveling with a depth of 100ft with active pinging.

My questions are

1) Are these good tactics in finding and engaging a sub from a helo. If not are their better approaches

2) I have a feeling my torpedo presets are not ideal for the situation. Would it be better to have it in a circular pattern and drop it as soon as I get the MAD alarm. Or should I back up along the course and launch from further away down a heading?

3) Are the torpedo preset bearing relative to the helo or are they global

4) Any other help on presets is appreciated.

Thanks,

Brett

[OneShot]

Your basic approach isnt so bad, just some detail work needs to be done. Since I'm to lazy to do a walkthrough here again, try reading up on this link : http://www.commanders-academy.com/wi..._Demo_Tutorial

At the bottom you will find the PDF version which even includes the pictures (I have to add them to the wiki yet).

Cheers
OS

[btaft]

Thanks One Shot. It was a good read.

Regards,

Brett

[Hans_Brux]

Hi! Not being here for long time, this is one of my first post here (have done some posting in SH3 forum before). But I have moved "few" years forward, so for now, I am aboard DW, entering the digital warfare era So I am also new to this game, like you Its really interesting to compare the warfare back then and now, but I have to admit that my SH3 knowledge is by no menas useless at DW! But, as a DW newby I chose MH60 as my starting platform, like you, and have learned to handle it really well (at leats I think ), so I can answer your questions:

1. Your approach is basically fine, I use the same, your issue are the details (and DW is about details, like all REAL Sims). Firstly, use three buoys to triangulate your prey (TRIangulate=three points or more, using of two buoys could be named like "Duangulation" ). I know, I know, your approach worked on this Victor, but it will come short as soon as you will have to track zig-zaging sub. Using three point tracking is MUCH more accurate (off course, it depend on buoys positions, sometimes 2 point tracking can be more acurrate than 4 point tracking, but this is extreme, not rule!). Secondly, cut short your triangulate period-10 mnts is so loooooong time...imagine that this Victor won't go straight but will be zig/zaging...your approach will be useless because you'll have two trackers with 10 mnts gap and at the time you'll reach the second tracker by flying down the line, the sub could be off the line already because it changed course, so you'll find nothing. So, cut down the gap between triangulation - 2 mnts is fine, but 30sec is also necesary in some cases (Sub rapidly changing course, evading your or someone elses torpedoes, turning away from active sonar a.s.o.....). Basically, the less time between tracking, the better! What you wanna know is what the sub skipper will do next minute, two....and you can find out this by placing as many trackers as posibble, so you can predict his next step (for example, when zig-zaging, firstly he steers left, then right, then again left....so there is high probability that his next steer will be again on right side). With enough trackers, you can guess where he'll be let's say in five minutes, and wait for him and his MAD response there.
2. Flying down the line and getting MAD response is good tactic, but basically its not so easy as in this DEMO (where the Sub is going straight) so you have to slightly change your approach (mentioned in the point above), finding MAD in helo is sometimes really tricky . So, lets predict you get MAD-now you've got two options: first-imediately launch your torpedo with circle pattern preset and depth setting depending on sub depth, layer position a.s.o. (in this demo, there is no layer do feel free to not change the defaults, only set the pattern). With little bit of luck you should hit the sub. Use this tactic only when you are pushed by time (for example the sub is closing fastly to the convoy you are protecting) and have to act fast. This tactic is also good on those pesky Kilos, because tracking them is really hard and once you got MAD, you've to get max use of it (you can get another MAD later, but then it could be already late). So, this was the firts option. The second one is much more precise and lethal MOST times. Once you get MAD, immediately stop, go to hover and stream your dipping sonar. Use active and you get his exact position-he won't be far away max 1000yds (of course, depending on his speed). Simply said, although you'll tell him by pinging him that you are there, before the sub captain will shout "knuckle left/right!!", your torpedoes will be already in the water (assign them to target-acive ping response- in the ATO,set RTE to zero, because as soon as the torpedo hits the water, it will "see" its prey), no more than 30 second to impact....to little time for the sub captain to react. Use this tactic when you have those 45+ seconds to stop, stream a ping, otherwise use the first tactic I mentioned above.
3. They are global! This is most probably the reason why your torpedo missed, your runout baring setting was (I guess) 000, but the torpedo did'nt go straight form you, but it instead went north (I did same mistake as you for the firts time
4. I skip this one, alright? So many words from me already here!

Anyway, I'am glad that I'am not the only one who found this game as far as now, so I can share my piece of knowledge with someone else. Looking forward for next posting!

P.S.: I'am not native-english speaking man, so I apologize for eventuall errors
P.S.2: When you master the helo, I recommend you to continue with P3

[Hans_Brux]

Damn, late again! But I forgive you OneShot, but only because of your superb P3 manual!

[btaft]

Thanks as well Hans. Your english was just fine for me.

One question though with regards to the time between marks. Wouldn't the longer period be good for determining the overall base course as opposed to the course about which the sub is zig-zagging about?

Thanks,

BT

[Hans_Brux]

Firstly, I want to say I'am glad my post was of any use to you Next, I have to clear out some terminology I used. I know you understood my post, but here where I live we say "Order makes friends" I talked about trackers. My use of this term in official terminology = intersection of two or more LOBs, we mark this point (area) with marker. So, that's it I highly recommend to write down the time when the marker was created bellow the marker. This is crutial for getting the target speed and for getting general idea where the sub is (if first two markers with 2 mnts gap are distanced 1000yds, there is high probability that in next 2mnts sub will be somewhere in the area within 1000 yds from 2nd marker a.s.o...). To answer your question: yeah, it's possible. But it's much better to draw those 2 mnts markers, make it five times - you get 5 markers, first and last one with your desired 10 mnts gap and you can still get benefit from those three left By making only two markers (10 mnts gap) you can seriously miss (especially on zig-zaging sub), because you don't know if those positions were extremes or not. Yeah, it's all about MATH!! The best way to get really accurate idea of target general course is to make AT LEAST five markers (let's say with 2 mnts gap, but the gap can be longer, if you have enough time to track the sub - in P3 in the middle of the ocean, for example ) and then draw a line, which distance (rectangular) from each marker will be +- equal - in math this is called aproximation. The line is the general course of your target. I think now you see where the problem with your 10 mnts gap is - as we place the markers, we do it with errors (unavoidably) and two markers are simply not enough to correct those errors (offsets) in the above written process (aproximation). Your 2 markers can be off (lets say each by 200 yds from real target position), so the line connecting them could be seriously off his real course. Next case is when your markers are generally good (little error), but were placed unfortunately at the farthest point from the general course of the sub (point where sub turns back towards the "line" of general course). You see that if the second point will be made on the other side of this line (again extreme for example), the line between those two point will be faaaar away from the real general bearing So, that's it

[btaft]

Thanks One Shot and Hans. Basically I followed most of what was suggested. I narrowed down with the dipping sonar and buoys then closed in with the MAD, detected, and streamed the dipping to get an accurate bearing with active mode and sent a fish his way and sent it to the bottom. I know it is a pretty easy scenario but it certainly provided some lessons none the less. Next I will either do the P3 or the Kilo demo. Thanks again.

Regards,

BT