Six Day War 40 years ago.

[Happy Times]

One of the most fascinating and well planned and executed campaigns ever IMO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ml/default.stm

EDIT. Should we keep politics mainly out of this one and Focus (:rotfl instead on the military side of the campaign?

[FIREWALL]

Watched it last nite on public tv. Was very informitive and grafic.

[Skybird]

Saw a feature on it this early evening. Israeli intel back then strongly suggested that noone ever should seriously think about occupation of territories - it would create problems that are exactly what in later years until today has been seen. So clever minds already back then knew it all too well. Of course, some dumper minds knew it better, and so...

As one of the historians in the film said: the six-day war is Israel's longest week ever - and the week still is not over. :hmm:

[geetrue]

The God of the Hebrew children is so cool ... he had all of the Egyptian pilots at a party the night before, a long distance from their air fields.

They were warned by middle management intelligence that Israel was up to something and did nothing.

The warning in code that Israel had launched their entire airforce came from Jordan, but was not on the same code day that the rest of Egypt was on that day. (The problem was on the recieving end)

All of the Egyptian field commanders had just been changed and were not acustomed to their surroundings yet.

Jordan started shelling Israel first ... The Jews put an end to their shelling and their air force too.

"If God be for us, who can be against us"?

Comes to mind ...

[Camaero]

Israel can sure get it done whenever she needs to! I like that.

[Heibges]

I think it also shows that a force of reserves can be just as effective and professional as a large standing army.

This in interesting. I wonder if these guys are related to the Swift Boat Veterans.

http://www.ussliberty.org/

http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm

Besides there website, there doesn't seem to be any info about them.

But I guess this dude Jim Ennes has been making these claims for a long time, and this guy Cristol just wrote a new book that refutes Ennes claims that the attack was premeditated.

[The Avon Lady]

The same trash over and over again. And it's almost predictable who will post it and when.

"There is no truth in these conspiracy theories against Israel. [But] those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy, will not be convinced by anything."
- Retired US Judge A Jay Cristol, author of The Liberty Incident

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Saw a feature on it this early evening. Israeli intel back then strongly suggested that noone ever should seriously think about occupation of territories - it would create problems that are exactly what in later years until today has been seen. So clever minds already back then knew it all too well. Of course, some dumper minds knew it better, and so...

And so...

Two months after the war, in August 1967, the Arab leaders meeting in Khartoum adopted a formula of three noes: "no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel."

And so...

The Arab League created the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in Cairo in 1964 - 3 years prior to the Six Day War - as a weapon against Israel. Until the Six Day War, the PLO engaged in terrorist attacks that contributed to the momentum toward conflict. Neither the PLO nor any other Palestinian groups campaigned for Jordan or Egypt to create an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. The focus of Palestinian activism was and still is today on the destruction of Israel.

And so...

Chances are had Israel then returned every last centimer of land and retreated to the pre-war "Green Line", more wars and more severe ones would have followed, leading to even more death and terror than Israel has suffered from these past 40 years.

As it is, so far Israel has since given back some 93% of the areas it captured in the 6 day war.

And so...

Some minds are dumper that others.

EDIT: No Pyrrhic Victory.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

As it is, so far Israel has since given back some 93% of the areas it captured in the 6 day war.

Thats a bit of spin really. The so called unilateral disengagement moved Israeli troops outside of the borders of Gaza but it doesn't negate the actual control which Israel has over the area. Israel has maintained control of the waters and air space around Gaza and has routinely cut off the road ways in and out. Not only that but Palestinians have been encouraged to work inside of Israel while the economy of Gaza itself hasn't been allowed to develop. Now with the tightening of access the GDP has plummeted from whatever meagre stature it had before and unemployment is something like 35%. Poverty has grown exponentially. Not only that but when the people of Gaza elect the wrong party to government Israel with most of the western world cut off the money to the Palestinian Authority effectively denying them governance.

So from here you can justify however you like the behavior of Israel given these facts. But Israel has choked the economy of Gaza, segregated its people, and crippled the Palestinian Authority's ability to govern. Nobody can say that Israel isn't in control of these lands. They haven't given anything back, they've reorganized the pieces so that they can disown all responsibility as the occupying force.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Thats a bit of spin really.

No. That's a fact. Israel returned all of the Sinai to Egypt, territory claimed by Jordan was returned to the Hashemite Kingdom and nearly all of the Gaza Strip and more than 40 percent of the West Bank was given to the Palestinians to establish the Palestinian Authority.

The so called unilateral disengagement moved Israeli troops outside of the borders of Gaza but it doesn't negate the actual control which Israel has over the area.

You mean because that Arabs continue to attack us? Surprise! And so much for control. More weapons and explosives have come into Gaza since Israel left it than ever before.

Israel has maintained control of the waters and air space around Gaza and has routinely cut off the road ways in and out.

Not only that but Palestinians have been encouraged to work inside of Israel while the economy of Gaza itself hasn't been allowed to develop.

How can it develop when the money goes to weapons, terrorist groups and the apartments, villas, Mercedes and Surround Sound home entertainment systems the top thugs (and there are so many!) have treated themselves to?

Now with the tightening of access the GDP has plummeted from whatever meagre stature it had before and unemployment is something like 35%. Poverty has grown exponentially.

Cry me a wadi!

Not only that but when the people of Gaza elect the wrong party to government

Hahahaha! "Wrong party"! Excuses, excuses.......

Israel with most of the western world cut off the money to the Palestinian Authority effectively denying them governance.

And just what was being done with the billions of dollars and euros prior to that? Keep your head in the sand.

So from here you can justify however you like the behavior of Israel given these facts. But Israel has choked the economy of Gaza, segregated its people, and crippled the Palestinian Authority's ability to govern.

No, it is self afflicted. If they can't afford to butcher their neighbor, they should seek some of the alternatives you pity them not having.

Nobody can say that Israel isn't in control of these lands.

The Arabs are responsible for their own quagmire. To quote Abba Eban back in 1973:

"Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace,"

They haven't given anything back, they've reorganized the pieces so that they can disown all responsibility as the occupying force.

[Camaero]

I love that shirt. If I was Jewish, I would get one. I would just feel awkward if I got one otherwise though...

[P_Funk]

Thats exaclty what I thought AL. Predictable. The most powerful nation in the region is totally powerless and not at all responsible for anything that happens. You can't even own up to the reality. Just because Israel is attacked doesn't mean that Israel isn't still trying to exert control over the region. I didn't challenge any of that other tired Israeli propoganda. I just challenged the assersion that Israel had handed over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. No actually I didn't even say the West Bank. I said Gaza. I also said "a bit of spin". A bit implying not entirely or a portion. I didn't say that Israel didn't return any of the other territories. You make a broad generalized statement, one that persists throughout the media and popular opinion, and I challenged its finer meaning.

Pro Israel speak gets too much leeway. But hey you can't criticize Israel one iota. You always receive a vehement angry assault. Contempt and vulgar attitudes. Its one of the disgusting perversions of modern political discourse that criticism of Israel is made into anti-Semitism.

Tout on AL.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And so...

Two months after the war, in August 1967, the Arab leaders meeting in Khartoum adopted a formula of three noes: "no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel."

And so...

The Arab League created the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in Cairo in 1964 - 3 years prior to the Six Day War - as a weapon against Israel. Until the Six Day War, the PLO engaged in terrorist attacks that contributed to the momentum toward conflict. Neither the PLO nor any other Palestinian groups campaigned for Jordan or Egypt to create an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. The focus of Palestinian activism was and still is today on the destruction of Israel.

And so...

Chances are had Israel then returned every last centimer of land and retreated to the pre-war "Green Line", more wars and more severe ones would have followed, leading to even more death and terror than Israel has suffered from these past 40 years.

As it is, so far Israel has since given back some 93% of the areas it captured in the 6 day war.

And so...

Some minds are dumper that others.

EDIT: No Pyrrhic Victory.

All I meant was to point out that some of your guys even back then have forseen the problems you are plagued by now in the territoires that you still occupy until today - no matter if these are 7% of what you won on the ground back then, or more, or less.

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Now with the tightening of access the GDP has plummeted from whatever meagre stature it had before and unemployment is something like 35%. Poverty has grown exponentially.

This hasn't stopped them from increasing their population by a factor of more than four, and buy wqeapkns over and over and over again and mess up every chance for an agreement with Israel. Truth is - their living alrerady could be so mjcuz better and peaceful since years if not decades. but with unerring instinct they made the wrong choice whenever being given the ooportunity, wether it be the leadership of Arafat, or the attempot to overthrow Jordan, or the lining-up with Saddam Hussein. By their total mental immobility they have made it easy for Israel to minimize it's own efforts to get the issues solved and give back additional ground, and that certainly is not clever. clever it would have been to outcharm the Israelis in global perception. Instead they atill swing keys for houses that are no longer there and andelssly mourn about the home of their fathers that none of them has a single memory of. It's no real loss for many of them, it's a bad habit only. Only the oldest of the old ones still have some memories. but the future cannot be formed by endlessly turning the head and always watching back to the far away past. That is morbid. What cares a baby for what happened decades, centuries, millenia before? The fifty years ahead of it are what counts.

Although I agree that the conditions by which Israel was founded were not okay and laid the basis for the better part of the troubles we see today, nevertheless it is too long ago as if that could be reversed without doing the same kind of injustice again, this time to the other side of the two. So I nevertheless would demand the Palestinians to show up with some basic sense for realism, but this obviously is too much demanded. Their own Arab and Islamic brothers do not care too much for them anymore, and use them as propaganda only to push their own interests and agendas. the simple hard truth is: all world in West and East, Muslim and non-Muslim is sick and tired of the Palestinians. that may not sound well and nice and certainly it is politically most incorrect - but it simply is true. You may be suroprised at some of the comments I heared from ordinary people in Algeria, Egypt, Turkey and Iran on the Palestinians. That they are not being liked is a mild summary only.

That is, imo, one of the problems with Islamic societies: even more than with conservative Christians and orthodox Jews: they stick with their heads always in the past, and get deadlocked there. the result is the typical phlegma and lacking agility to adapt to a changing world and that I would say is to very typical for the Islamic world in general, and that has hindered it from the beginning to show up with comparable developement and blossoming of culture of thought that enabled the West to leave the chains of the medieval church behind and instead get busy with sciences, technology, industrial developement - and create it itself instead of just buying it from others. In this, Islamic countries always depended on the input from Europe, wether that input was enforced (Spain), voluntarily (Jewish escape from persecution in France and Europe into the Ottoman Empire and showing them the marvels of Western weapons technology), or free trade and cultural exchange (tourism and trading in the modern present). The narrow-mindedness of Islam is both the cause of it self, and the consequence - a vicious circle. The potential of self-developement simply is not included in Muhammad's teachings, since he did not wished for that, but wanted to prevent that. the fate of the Palestinians today is just of the symptoms coming from that, because it fosters this but no other mental attitude and way to see life.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

One of the most fascinating and well planned and executed campaigns ever IMO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ml/default.stm

EDIT. Should we keep politics mainly out of this one and Focus (:rotfl instead on the military side of the campaign?

I'll stay on topic if I may....Your right there HT....a textbook example of how to achieve a swift and decisive victory in a military conflict

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

The same trash over and over again. And it's almost predictable who will post it and when.

"There is no truth in these conspiracy theories against Israel. [But] those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy, will not be convinced by anything."
- Retired US Judge A Jay Cristol, author of The Liberty Incident

Ok, Uncle Leo.