Deck guns and Molotov Cocktails

Von Tonner · 06-05-07, 05:58 AM

There are some who deride the effective use of deck guns as a weapon on Subs, holding the opinion that they were only defensive in nature, reloads slow etc, etc. Obviously no one told Cdr Morton

"Wahoo left on the following morning to investigate a ship on the horizon, which proved to be a small diesel-driven freighter. The submarine commenced firing with her 20-millimeter and four-inch guns. The freighter tried to ram, but Wahoo had no trouble in keeping clear. She continued her gunfire, seting the freighter ablaze from stem to stern and leaving her dead in the water. The crew alternated looks through the periscope as the freighter sank."

"...Later that day, Wahoo sighted a 100-ton trawler and opened up with her four-inch and 20-millimeter guns. When all three 20-millimeter guns jammed, Wahoo went alongside the riddled trawler and the Wahoo men hurled on board some homemade Molotov cocktails, gifts from the marines at Midway Island. :rotfl:Wahoo departed, leaving the ship wrecked, spouting flame and smoke. On 28 March, while conducting a surfaced patrol on the Shimonoseki-Formosa shipping route, Wahoo opened fire on two motor sampans with two 20-millimeter guns. They did not sink but were also left wrecked."

"...The next day, Wahoo sighted freighter Satsuki Wahoo Maru. She fired two torpedoes; when both exploded prematurely, so Wahoo battle surfaced to use her guns. She closed the target, raked her with 20-millimeter shells and holed her with almost 90 rounds of four-inch. The target caught fire in several places and sank in about one hour."

"...The next day, she sighted a sampan and fired warning shots across the bow. When the sampan failed to stop, the submarine opened up on it with her 20-millimeter and four-inch guns. The sampan was soon a wreck with no signs of life. However, six Japanese fishermen surrendered and were taken on board as prisoners of war. Eight hours later, Wahoo opened fire on two more sampans, enveloping them in flames."

And there is another instance (I think it was her) where she took on a oil refinery or depot on shore with her deck gun.

Argus00 · 06-05-07, 07:21 AM

Yes, it happened, this was exactly what the deck gun was good at - taking out targets not worth a torp and NOT POSING A COUNTER-THREAT (couldn't fire back), or for battering shore targets.

I seriously doubt the Wahoo or any other sub would have dueled it out with a DD.

tater · 06-05-07, 08:57 AM

Attacking fishing trawlers and sampams is exactly what I'd expect a deck gun to be used for. Not the kind of insane surface actions we can do in game. Small diesel frieghters could well mean a sea truck. Might be 300 tons.

jhelix70 · 06-05-07, 09:58 AM

Yeah, I think the major part of the debate is whether the deck gun could sink larger merchants, say 3000 tons and up.

tater · 06-05-07, 10:03 AM

Actually, if the only change to dec guns was to make them act like the TBT with the stabilizing view OFF I'd be happy. As the game is, regardless of settings the deck gun is gyrostabilized. If you had to get right next to a merchant to actually hit it most of the time, it would be far ess effective since any guns on the merchant would be very worrisome.

GnarPow · 06-05-07, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Actually, if the only change to dec guns was to make them act like the TBT with the stabilizing view OFF I'd be happy. As the game is, regardless of settings the deck gun is gyrostabilized. If you had to get right next to a merchant to actually hit it most of the time, it would be far ess effective since any guns on the merchant would be very worrisome.

I agree with this! imho its way too easy to land shots with the deck gun... I dont even use the scope usually unless it is over 2500 yards

Where is the Molotov Cocktail mod?? i want to be able to deal with those sampans without wasting a bullet, LOL

tater · 06-05-07, 12:05 PM

It's not wasting rounds, it's training for the gun crews

perisher · 06-05-07, 12:21 PM

I did some research into ROF for deck guns. I read about 50 patrol reports. The largest ship engaged by gun alone in all those reports was one of 5,200 tons by the skipper's estimate. Submarine skippers tended to over estimate tonnage by a large margin. I found no evidence, other than the above, of ships of greater than 3,000 tons being the target of gun actions.

jhelix70 · 06-05-07, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Actually, if the only change to dec guns was to make them act like the TBT with the stabilizing view OFF I'd be happy

Yeah, I agree...the major reason why the deck gun is overpowered in vanilla is its way to easy to get hits. In RFB, the rate of fire is also drastically reduced to more realistic levels, this also helps. I wonder if its impossible to mod away the deck gun stabilization?

06-05-07, 05:58 AM	#1
Von Tonner Seasoned Skipper Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 711 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Deck guns and Molotov Cocktails There are some who deride the effective use of deck guns as a weapon on Subs, holding the opinion that they were only defensive in nature, reloads slow etc, etc. Obviously no one told Cdr Morton "Wahoo left on the following morning to investigate a ship on the horizon, which proved to be a small diesel-driven freighter. The submarine commenced firing with her 20-millimeter and four-inch guns. The freighter tried to ram, but Wahoo had no trouble in keeping clear. She continued her gunfire, seting the freighter ablaze from stem to stern and leaving her dead in the water. The crew alternated looks through the periscope as the freighter sank." "...Later that day, Wahoo sighted a 100-ton trawler and opened up with her four-inch and 20-millimeter guns. When all three 20-millimeter guns jammed, Wahoo went alongside the riddled trawler and the Wahoo men hurled on board some homemade Molotov cocktails, gifts from the marines at Midway Island. :rotfl:Wahoo departed, leaving the ship wrecked, spouting flame and smoke. On 28 March, while conducting a surfaced patrol on the Shimonoseki-Formosa shipping route, Wahoo opened fire on two motor sampans with two 20-millimeter guns. They did not sink but were also left wrecked." "...The next day, Wahoo sighted freighter Satsuki Wahoo Maru. She fired two torpedoes; when both exploded prematurely, so Wahoo battle surfaced to use her guns. She closed the target, raked her with 20-millimeter shells and holed her with almost 90 rounds of four-inch. The target caught fire in several places and sank in about one hour." "...The next day, she sighted a sampan and fired warning shots across the bow. When the sampan failed to stop, the submarine opened up on it with her 20-millimeter and four-inch guns. The sampan was soon a wreck with no signs of life. However, six Japanese fishermen surrendered and were taken on board as prisoners of war. Eight hours later, Wahoo opened fire on two more sampans, enveloping them in flames." And there is another instance (I think it was her) where she took on a oil refinery or depot on shore with her deck gun.

06-05-07, 07:21 AM	#2
Argus00 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 153 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Yes, it happened, this was exactly what the deck gun was good at - taking out targets not worth a torp and NOT POSING A COUNTER-THREAT (couldn't fire back), or for battering shore targets. I seriously doubt the Wahoo or any other sub would have dueled it out with a DD. __________________ ________________________ Semper ubi sub ubi ubique.

06-05-07, 12:21 PM	#8
perisher Frogman Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 300 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I did some research into ROF for deck guns. I read about 50 patrol reports. The largest ship engaged by gun alone in all those reports was one of 5,200 tons by the skipper's estimate. Submarine skippers tended to over estimate tonnage by a large margin. I found no evidence, other than the above, of ships of greater than 3,000 tons being the target of gun actions. __________________ "Pitt was the greatest fool who ever lived to encourage a mode of war which they who commanded the seas did not want, and which, if successful, would deprive them of it." Earl St.Vincent (allegedly)

06-05-07, 08:57 AM	#3
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Attacking fishing trawlers and sampams is exactly what I'd expect a deck gun to be used for. Not the kind of insane surface actions we can do in game. Small diesel frieghters could well mean a sea truck. Might be 300 tons.

06-05-07, 09:58 AM	#4
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I think the major part of the debate is whether the deck gun could sink larger merchants, say 3000 tons and up.

06-05-07, 10:03 AM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Actually, if the only change to dec guns was to make them act like the TBT with the stabilizing view OFF I'd be happy. As the game is, regardless of settings the deck gun is gyrostabilized. If you had to get right next to a merchant to actually hit it most of the time, it would be far ess effective since any guns on the merchant would be very worrisome.

06-05-07, 12:05 PM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's not wasting rounds, it's training for the gun crews