Maybe its just me but...

SteamWake · 05-30-07, 09:45 AM

I keep reading these storys about having sunk destroyers and aircraft carriers with a few torpedoes while the DD's ran around like chickens with their head cut off. Basically how the damage models are bad and the AI even worse.

I had read these storys and had a save game where I was stalking a very large convoy. I decided to give it a rip and be much more aggressive than I would normally be.

I worked my way into position submerged towards the center of the group where I figured the high value targets would be. We then slowed and came to periscope depth. We set as many presets on the torpedos depth speed etc as we could. I knew we would have to be quick .. or dead.

We reached PD and quickly scanned to asses the situation... My god that DD is close ! There ! There she is ! An aircraft carrier. Quickly work up a solution flood tube 1 Fire !, Flood tube two... pick my spot and Fire !....

About this time the pinging started... Dident take them long to find us did it !

Move it men ! Tube 3 ! Fire !, Tube 4 ! Fire !....

Crash dive ! Rudder hard to port (ping, ping, ping) Kaboom ! Torpedo impact ! Sploosh, Sploosh the DC's hit the water. Dive officer take her down .. deep.. fast !

Kaboom Torpedo impact ! Wham boom shudder "Were taking damage sir ! " "Critical flooding sir !"

To make a long story short (too late) All four torpedoes hit the ship spread along the length of her hull at good depths. The carrier steamed along as if she had been hit by a flea no apparent damage. I checked with outside view.

We on the other hand could not keep up with the flooding great efforts by the crew and damage repair were not enough and we slipped into the darkness never to be heard from again.

To sum it up

Me : 4 Good solid hits on the Carrier..... no apparent damage

Them : One kill on first pass with DC's

Running 1.2 with green button, bearing tool, and "realistic battery" mods. So the AI and damage models are 'stock'

orangenee · 05-30-07, 10:42 AM

I think it varies with the time in the war (they got a lot better later in the war), and on the skill level of the crew (I believe it works in a similar fashion to your crew skill level), so sometimes they'll be on you like a fly on pooh, other times you'll be able to surface and shoot them at leisure with your deck gun. In fact yesterday I had one destroyer scraping the paint off the side of my sub, while I waved at the crew and shot them, and then another in the distance shining it's light on me but not doing anything else, so the game seems to be a bit hit and miss with AI ATM. Hopefully it'll be improved with 1.3.

donut · 05-30-07, 11:12 AM

Get Redwines DC lethal radius fix,Reduced Depth Charges Lethal Radius, broken, try
http://rs51.rapidshare.com/files/231..._1__SH_IV_.zip

SteamWake · 05-30-07, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donut

Get Redwines DC lethal radius fix,Reduced Depth Charges Lethal Radius, broken, try
http://rs51.rapidshare.com/files/231..._1__SH_IV_.zip

I already looked into that but could not find much chatter about it. Weather or not the default DC's are actually over powered or not. If this mod was more 'realistic'.

I wouldent doubt it this is the second time Ive had a crew go down with one shot 'critical flooding sir'.

Not that it dident happen in real life.

GTHammer · 05-30-07, 02:08 PM

I've got the die slowly mod and most of its components enabled, so the DC's are a bit powered down. However, I've found this to be pretty true as well. Sometimes the destroyers are confused, sometimes they're all over my ass. There seems to be a definitive difference between those guarding convoys vs. task forces. Every task force I come across I usually get one salvo off and immediately have to go deep and run. Its possible though that this is only because there are usually about twice the number of DE's in a task force than a convoy though...

popeye · 05-31-07, 01:21 AM

i have also encountered varying degrees of response. sometimes they kill me right away, like they knew where i was and it was all over too quickly. sometimes they act like they are captained by retards.

just now, i came upon a small convoy and decided to hit the two large merchants. i fired one torpedo at each, hoping it would be enough. i tried to hit as far forward as possible, to cause maximum flooding, and slow them down. one ended up burning badly, the other heavily flooded, and sits low in the water. both slowed to 2 knots. i have been shadowing them for hours waiting for them to sink, or the rest of the convoy to escape. the whole lot of them slowed to a crawl, and the DD's made a half-hearted attempt to kill me, but so far have not. they DC'ed many times, either in front of me or behind. sometimes i cut the engine, and waited for him to loop in front of me.. they didnt ping too much, and i was below a thermal layer. the water is becoming shallow quicky. i'm afraid i must break off the pursuit.

i tried to surface and put a few rounds into them, but the DD's were beside me in what seemed like seconds. at first they fired lighter guns, and the flack went over our heads, but when i heard the bigger caliber guns, i knew it was over.

i saved it before i tried that method of suicide, and i still dont know what i will do. should i break off, and let them go, or contine to chase in shallower water. i just dont want to waste more torpedoes on so mortally wounded victims. maybe i just have to.

donut · 05-31-07, 01:55 AM

Redwine
Admiral

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
Posts: 2,154

Really interesting...

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMJAP_ASW.htm

Allied the most used allied Depth Charge was the 420lbs. one, with a lethal radius between 4.3 filled TNT in early and middle war times, and 7m filled with Anatol/Menlo in later war times.

Japanese only has 220lbs, Depth Charges with a rate of sink of 1.9m/s.
This means the lethal radios must to be much smaller than above for 420lbs.
Sure they needs to explode so near the hull, almost the half of the above values for 420lbs, may be between 2m and 2.5m.

Only after 1943, Japanese developed a 357lbs, Depth Charge, with a rate of sink of 3m/s.
The lethal radius for them must be between 3m and 4m only.

In game default settings are a random value between 4.5m and 40m.... a very unrealistic value...

I changed the lethal radius to a more moderated values, now i am using a random value between 4.5m and 10m, which is larger than in real life.

4.5m is about the double of the real life value, and 10m is about 4 times the real life value.

Plus i reduce the sink rate from 5m/s default down to 3m/s which is near 60% more higher than in real life (1,9m/s)

It is similar i done for SH3, works fine.
Half! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109413 Interesting for realistic

daft · 05-31-07, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donut

In game default settings are a random value between 4.5m and 40m.... a very unrealistic value...

I changed the lethal radius to a more moderated values, now i am using a random value between 4.5m and 10m, which is larger than in real life.

4.5m is about the double of the real life value, and 10m is about 4 times the real life value.

Plus i reduce the sink rate from 5m/s default down to 3m/s which is near 60% more higher than in real life (1,9m/s)

40 meters!? What on earth were they thinking when they put that number in there? Your number seems much more reasonable and seems like a better compromise gameplay wise.

McBeck · 05-31-07, 03:51 AM

I think iv heard that if you kill the leader of the convoy the rest will thumble about...thats a bug...

05-30-07, 09:45 AM	#1
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Maybe its just me but... I keep reading these storys about having sunk destroyers and aircraft carriers with a few torpedoes while the DD's ran around like chickens with their head cut off. Basically how the damage models are bad and the AI even worse. I had read these storys and had a save game where I was stalking a very large convoy. I decided to give it a rip and be much more aggressive than I would normally be. I worked my way into position submerged towards the center of the group where I figured the high value targets would be. We then slowed and came to periscope depth. We set as many presets on the torpedos depth speed etc as we could. I knew we would have to be quick .. or dead. We reached PD and quickly scanned to asses the situation... My god that DD is close ! There ! There she is ! An aircraft carrier. Quickly work up a solution flood tube 1 Fire !, Flood tube two... pick my spot and Fire !.... About this time the pinging started... Dident take them long to find us did it ! Move it men ! Tube 3 ! Fire !, Tube 4 ! Fire !.... Crash dive ! Rudder hard to port (ping, ping, ping) Kaboom ! Torpedo impact ! Sploosh, Sploosh the DC's hit the water. Dive officer take her down .. deep.. fast ! Kaboom Torpedo impact ! Wham boom shudder "Were taking damage sir ! " "Critical flooding sir !" To make a long story short (too late) All four torpedoes hit the ship spread along the length of her hull at good depths. The carrier steamed along as if she had been hit by a flea no apparent damage. I checked with outside view. We on the other hand could not keep up with the flooding great efforts by the crew and damage repair were not enough and we slipped into the darkness never to be heard from again. To sum it up Me : 4 Good solid hits on the Carrier..... no apparent damage Them : One kill on first pass with DC's Running 1.2 with green button, bearing tool, and "realistic battery" mods. So the AI and damage models are 'stock'

05-30-07, 02:08 PM	#5
GTHammer Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 127 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I've got the die slowly mod and most of its components enabled, so the DC's are a bit powered down. However, I've found this to be pretty true as well. Sometimes the destroyers are confused, sometimes they're all over my ass. There seems to be a definitive difference between those guarding convoys vs. task forces. Every task force I come across I usually get one salvo off and immediately have to go deep and run. Its possible though that this is only because there are usually about twice the number of DE's in a task force than a convoy though... __________________ GT USS Hammer

05-31-07, 01:55 AM	#7
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	@ Admiral SteamWake Sir, Redwine Admiral Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina. Posts: 2,154 Really interesting... http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMJAP_ASW.htm Allied the most used allied Depth Charge was the 420lbs. one, with a lethal radius between 4.3 filled TNT in early and middle war times, and 7m filled with Anatol/Menlo in later war times. Japanese only has 220lbs, Depth Charges with a rate of sink of 1.9m/s. This means the lethal radios must to be much smaller than above for 420lbs. Sure they needs to explode so near the hull, almost the half of the above values for 420lbs, may be between 2m and 2.5m. Only after 1943, Japanese developed a 357lbs, Depth Charge, with a rate of sink of 3m/s. The lethal radius for them must be between 3m and 4m only. In game default settings are a random value between 4.5m and 40m.... a very unrealistic value... I changed the lethal radius to a more moderated values, now i am using a random value between 4.5m and 10m, which is larger than in real life. 4.5m is about the double of the real life value, and 10m is about 4 times the real life value. Plus i reduce the sink rate from 5m/s default down to 3m/s which is near 60% more higher than in real life (1,9m/s) It is similar i done for SH3, works fine. Half! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109413 Interesting for realistic Last edited by donut; 05-31-07 at 02:08 AM.

05-31-07, 03:51 AM	#9
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I think iv heard that if you kill the leader of the convoy the rest will thumble about...thats a bug... __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

05-30-07, 10:42 AM	#2
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think it varies with the time in the war (they got a lot better later in the war), and on the skill level of the crew (I believe it works in a similar fashion to your crew skill level), so sometimes they'll be on you like a fly on pooh, other times you'll be able to surface and shoot them at leisure with your deck gun. In fact yesterday I had one destroyer scraping the paint off the side of my sub, while I waved at the crew and shot them, and then another in the distance shining it's light on me but not doing anything else, so the game seems to be a bit hit and miss with AI ATM. Hopefully it'll be improved with 1.3.

05-30-07, 11:12 AM	#3
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Get Redwines DC lethal radius fix,Reduced Depth Charges Lethal Radius, broken, try http://rs51.rapidshare.com/files/231..._1__SH_IV_.zip

05-31-07, 01:21 AM	#6
popeye A-ganger Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i have also encountered varying degrees of response. sometimes they kill me right away, like they knew where i was and it was all over too quickly. sometimes they act like they are captained by retards. just now, i came upon a small convoy and decided to hit the two large merchants. i fired one torpedo at each, hoping it would be enough. i tried to hit as far forward as possible, to cause maximum flooding, and slow them down. one ended up burning badly, the other heavily flooded, and sits low in the water. both slowed to 2 knots. i have been shadowing them for hours waiting for them to sink, or the rest of the convoy to escape. the whole lot of them slowed to a crawl, and the DD's made a half-hearted attempt to kill me, but so far have not. they DC'ed many times, either in front of me or behind. sometimes i cut the engine, and waited for him to loop in front of me.. they didnt ping too much, and i was below a thermal layer. the water is becoming shallow quicky. i'm afraid i must break off the pursuit. i tried to surface and put a few rounds into them, but the DD's were beside me in what seemed like seconds. at first they fired lighter guns, and the flack went over our heads, but when i heard the bigger caliber guns, i knew it was over. i saved it before i tried that method of suicide, and i still dont know what i will do. should i break off, and let them go, or contine to chase in shallower water. i just dont want to waste more torpedoes on so mortally wounded victims. maybe i just have to.