SH4 - post 1.2 status: A Plan of Action

[jdkbph]

Folks,

The game is broken in a significant way. We know this, the devs know this, UBI knows this. It's not a question or a subject for debate. It's a fact.

The question is, what will be done about it?

Obviously, the most satisfactory solution would be for UBI to issue a patch that fixes all of the critical defects (eg, crash bugs, unimplemented or non-functional features advertised as part of, or obviously essential to game play) and addresses as many of the non-critical defects (eg, aesthetics, typos, or other features not essential to game play) as can reasonably be expected.

Please note however, that this is not the same as asking for patch 1.3. I'm concerned by the "word" coming out of UBI, and those associated with them, regarding their apparent consideration for a 1.3 patch. I think we all understand that it's not the patch itself we want, but a fix for the bugs. I would not put it past UBI to issue a patch 1.3 - because "we asked for it" - and then say to us that we got what we asked for when we complain that it does not fix all of the critical defects.

Vague and tenuous, and even a bit cynical to be sure... but historically, such has been the relationship between game makers and game players. And while the results have been satisfactory in the majority of cases over the years (I've been playing computer games since 1981), there is the occasional EF2000 or Great Naval Battles: North Atlantic - games that were either never fixed, or for which the fix was sold to us as part of an "expansion" pack.

Now, if UBI decides not to support SH4 beyond the 1.2 patch, I think we'd all agree... as would most reasonable people once made aware of the situation... there is good reason to complain. But based on what I've read here and on the SH4 web site forums the last few weeks, I believe we're mostly clueless as to how to put forward our complaints in an effective manner.

The choices as I see them are as follows:

1. Shake our fists and stamp our feet and declare UBI evil incarnate to any and all who will listen.

2. Hire a lawyer and attempt to resolve the issue through litigation.

3. Threaten boycott, or

4. Utilize consumer protection resources provided to us free of charge by most states in the US and, I would bet, many goverments in Europe and Asia as well.

I don't have much faith that options 1, 2 or 3 will get us very far. However, option 4 has been effective for me in the past, and I believe it should be effective here as well. Therefore I propose the following plan of action:

First, write a letter of complaint to UBI, documenting the defects in SH4 and requesting either a fix or a refund.

Second, should UBI fail to respond to our satisfaction, file a complaint with the local govenment Consumer Protection Agency.

For folks in the US, UBI has offices in California, and regardless which state you're from or where you made your purchase, that puts the transaction under the jurisdiction of the California State Attorney General. The following links to a form letter that can be used for the initial complaint to UBI.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/r_r/complain.htm

This particular letter is no better or worse than others I've seen, or anything I could come up with myself, but I would recommend that we all use the same letter format, the exact same list of defects, and make the same exact request for remediation (fix or refund). In this way there will be no doubt in their minds that they are dealing with an organized effort, making it harder to ignore or dismiss.

In order to better target our complaints, I've identified the following corporate officers within UBI:

YVES GUILLEMOT
President and CEO

ALAIN CORRE
Executive Director, EMEA Territories

LAURENT DETOC
Executive Director, North America

My suggestion would be to address the complaint to the CEO as well as the appropriate territory director. As you might expect, these individuals insulate themselves from direct contact with the consumer fairly well... there is no actual contact info posted on their web sites. I did however find contact info, including email addresses, for the following media relations and corporate communications folks:

Christophe Grandjean
Corporate Media Relations Coordinator
christophe.grandjean@ubisoft.com

Jaime Borasi
Senior Manager
Corporate Communications
jaime.borasi@ubisoft.com


My suggestion is to email the linked form letter to thse individuals, along with attachments (if necessary) documenting the defects in SH4, and request that they forward the email to the CEO and territory director. Names and email addresses... enough to hold them accountable, and suitably placed to forward the complaint to the actual addressees.

Not that I expect a satisfactory response. But that's where the "hold accountable" part comes in. After the two week grace period referenced in the 1st complaint letter (linked above), the next step is to fill out the on-line complaint form at the California AG web site, here:

https://app.dca.ca.gov/cru/gencomplaint.asp

Note that this form requires that you provide information regarding who at UBI you contacted about this issue. Our answer will be "the CEO", et al.

As to the complaint itself... just a repeat of what was included in the UBI letter. I would highly suggest that this be kept brief - perhaps a numerical count of defects by category (x number of critical defects, y number of non-critical) with maybe the top 3 or 4, such as those Neal spelled out in his petition thread, specifically referenced. A note that we would be willing to provide a complete list of defects on request would probably be a good idea as well.

And regarding the expected resolution... the only reasonable thing we can ask for here is a fix or a refund.

Now all the above links and suggestions are related to US purchasers. I live in the US, so you'll have to forgive me if this whole thing comes off a bit US-centric. I'm sure, however, that there are some enterprising folks out there who can dig up the same type of info and contacts for your parts of the world.

And even for folks in the US, you might also try poking around your State AG's web site to see if they have a similar vehicle for complaint. If so, there is no reason not to file the complaint in your state as well as in California. I do feel it's important to include California though, as that's the one common denominator among us and the place where the weight of our numbers will be most evident.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter....

JD

[CaptainHaplo]

I am no seer - I normally dont predict the future - but I forsee a big red X listed next to this thread soon.

No offense mate - but before suggesting filing complaints and such - just email ubisoft and let them make a decision....

IF they say no - then each consumer will have a choice to make - but I will say it again - Subsim.com is not the place for that discussion....

Nor is it time to start talking complaints, legal action or anything else when no decision has been made yet.

Now is not the time - here is not the place....
(Hopes while clicking submit I beat the red X)

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I am no seer - I normally dont predict the future - but I forsee a big red X listed next to this thread soon.

No offense mate - but before suggesting filing complaints and such - just email ubisoft and let them make a decision....

IF they say no - then each consumer will have a choice to make - but I will say it again - Subsim.com is not the place for that discussion....

Nor is it time to start talking complaints, legal action or anything else when no decision has been made yet.

Now is not the time - here is not the place....
(Hopes while clicking submit I beat the red X)

No big red X here Sir! Looks like a good plan of action to me. This is were the energies need to be going.

I plan on sending the form. Whats to lose? A few minutes of my time. Nothing more.

[AVGWarhawk]

Personal emails sent to both. Both emails were respectful and with logic. I recommend you do the same for any action to be granted. Both emails signed with my full name. Let see what happens.

[Bane]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

IF they say no - then each consumer will have a choice to make - but I will say it again - Subsim.com is not the place for that discussion....

That is totally illogical. If not here, where? This seems like the only logical place for the sub sim community to come together to accomplish this:

Originally Posted by jdkbph

This particular letter is no better or worse than others I've seen, or anything I could come up with myself, but I would recommend that we all use the same letter format, the exact same list of defects, and make the same exact request for remediation (fix or refund). In this way there will be no doubt in their minds that they are dealing with an organized effort, making it harder to ignore or dismiss.

Edit: I just read the post where you explained your position. I agree with you in that context, that this isnt the place to pitch a fit. However I still disagree that this isn't the place to discuss what we should do about Ubisoft's decision (if indeed they decide against 1.3).

[CaptainHaplo]

Well - its not the first time I have been wrong!

I have no problem sending email to Ubi (Mine have been gone a while back - but these two might be good contacts as well.) - my issue is the idea of filing complaints with various agencies is a bit premature.

Its all good.

Bane - as for discussions of legal action, boycotts, etc - I posted on this issue earlier, see http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114943 for why such topics are likely to continued to be shut down. While I agree that if Ubi says no a discussion will be needed - but Subsim has garnered respect because its not a "off the deep end flame and threat" community.

[Jungman]

I think simply another route. Give us the tools by Ubisoft from the devs to change the hardcoded data and such. Is that what a SDK is?:p

Let us fans with computer skill do the work. Labor of love for the game. It really is the best way than a lawsuit.

[OlegM]

*yawn*

Another laughably naive, pointless, boring thread.......

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Jungman

I think simply another route. Give us the tools by Ubisoft from the devs to change the hardcoded data and such. Is that what a SDK is?:p

Let us fans with computer skill do the work. Labor of love for the game. It really is the best way than a lawsuit.

That works too. However I doubt that Ubisoft will release the SDK if there's any potential at all for another Silent Hunter game.

[the_belgian]

Originally Posted by Jungman

I think simply another route. Give us the tools by Ubisoft from the devs to change the hardcoded data and such. Is that what a SDK is?:p

Let us fans with computer skill do the work. Labor of love for the game. It really is the best way than a lawsuit.

Rowan did give the codes to the DEV-team in order to make Battle of Britain,Wings of Victory a growing sim. thanks to the BDG members(wich i'm proud to be a,small,member of)the sim is,after so many years,still up to date!!!

look at http://shockwaveproductions.com/foru...forum.php?f=10

Originally Posted by jdkbph

Folks,

The game is broken in a significant way. We know this, the devs know this, UBI knows this. It's not a question or a subject for debate. It's a fact.

The question is, what will be done about it?

Obviously, the most satisfactory solution would be for UBI to issue a patch that fixes all of the critical defects (eg, crash bugs, unimplemented or non-functional features advertised as part of, or obviously essential to game play) and addresses as many of the non-critical defects (eg, aesthetics, typos, or other features not essential to game play) as can reasonably be expected.

Please note however, that this is not the same as asking for patch 1.3. I'm concerned by the "word" coming out of UBI, and those associated with them, regarding their apparent consideration for a 1.3 patch. I think we all understand that it's not the patch itself we want, but a fix for the bugs. I would not put it past UBI to issue a patch 1.3 - because "we asked for it" - and then say to us that we got what we asked for when we complain that it does not fix all of the critical defects.

Vague and tenuous, and even a bit cynical to be sure... but historically, such has been the relationship between game makers and game players. And while the results have been satisfactory in the majority of cases over the years (I've been playing computer games since 1981), there is the occasional EF2000 or Great Naval Battles: North Atlantic - games that were either never fixed, or for which the fix was sold to us as part of an "expansion" pack.

Now, if UBI decides not to support SH4 beyond the 1.2 patch, I think we'd all agree... as would most reasonable people once made aware of the situation... there is good reason to complain. But based on what I've read here and on the SH4 web site forums the last few weeks, I believe we're mostly clueless as to how to put forward our complaints in an effective manner.

The choices as I see them are as follows:

1. Shake our fists and stamp our feet and declare UBI evil incarnate to any and all who will listen.

2. Hire a lawyer and attempt to resolve the issue through litigation.

3. Threaten boycott, or

4. Utilize consumer protection resources provided to us free of charge by most states in the US and, I would bet, many goverments in Europe and Asia as well.

I don't have much faith that options 1, 2 or 3 will get us very far. However, option 4 has been effective for me in the past, and I believe it should be effective here as well. Therefore I propose the following plan of action:

First, write a letter of complaint to UBI, documenting the defects in SH4 and requesting either a fix or a refund.

Second, should UBI fail to respond to our satisfaction, file a complaint with the local govenment Consumer Protection Agency.

For folks in the US, UBI has offices in California, and regardless which state you're from or where you made your purchase, that puts the transaction under the jurisdiction of the California State Attorney General. The following links to a form letter that can be used for the initial complaint to UBI.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/r_r/complain.htm

This particular letter is no better or worse than others I've seen, or anything I could come up with myself, but I would recommend that we all use the same letter format, the exact same list of defects, and make the same exact request for remediation (fix or refund). In this way there will be no doubt in their minds that they are dealing with an organized effort, making it harder to ignore or dismiss.

In order to better target our complaints, I've identified the following corporate officers within UBI:

YVES GUILLEMOT
President and CEO

ALAIN CORRE
Executive Director, EMEA Territories

LAURENT DETOC
Executive Director, North America

My suggestion would be to address the complaint to the CEO as well as the appropriate territory director. As you might expect, these individuals insulate themselves from direct contact with the consumer fairly well... there is no actual contact info posted on their web sites. I did however find contact info, including email addresses, for the following media relations and corporate communications folks:

Christophe Grandjean
Corporate Media Relations Coordinator
christophe.grandjean@ubisoft.com

Jaime Borasi
Senior Manager
Corporate Communications
jaime.borasi@ubisoft.com


My suggestion is to email the linked form letter to thse individuals, along with attachments (if necessary) documenting the defects in SH4, and request that they forward the email to the CEO and territory director. Names and email addresses... enough to hold them accountable, and suitably placed to forward the complaint to the actual addressees.

Not that I expect a satisfactory response. But that's where the "hold accountable" part comes in. After the two week grace period referenced in the 1st complaint letter (linked above), the next step is to fill out the on-line complaint form at the California AG web site, here:

https://app.dca.ca.gov/cru/gencomplaint.asp

Note that this form requires that you provide information regarding who at UBI you contacted about this issue. Our answer will be "the CEO", et al.

As to the complaint itself... just a repeat of what was included in the UBI letter. I would highly suggest that this be kept brief - perhaps a numerical count of defects by category (x number of critical defects, y number of non-critical) with maybe the top 3 or 4, such as those Neal spelled out in his petition thread, specifically referenced. A note that we would be willing to provide a complete list of defects on request would probably be a good idea as well.

And regarding the expected resolution... the only reasonable thing we can ask for here is a fix or a refund.

Now all the above links and suggestions are related to US purchasers. I live in the US, so you'll have to forgive me if this whole thing comes off a bit US-centric. I'm sure, however, that there are some enterprising folks out there who can dig up the same type of info and contacts for your parts of the world.

And even for folks in the US, you might also try poking around your State AG's web site to see if they have a similar vehicle for complaint. If so, there is no reason not to file the complaint in your state as well as in California. I do feel it's important to include California though, as that's the one common denominator among us and the place where the weight of our numbers will be most evident.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter....

JD

Good suggestions! Thanks. I've re-published them on the FP of my site.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by jdkbph

First, write a letter of complaint to UBI, documenting the defects in SH4 and requesting either a fix or a refund.

Second, should UBI fail to respond to our satisfaction, file a complaint with the local govenment Consumer Protection Agency.

For folks in the US, UBI has offices in California, and regardless which state you're from or where you made your purchase, that puts the transaction under the jurisdiction of the California State Attorney General. The following links to a form letter that can be used for the initial complaint to UBI.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/r_r/complain.htm

This particular letter is no better or worse than others I've seen, or anything I could come up with myself, but I would recommend that we all use the same letter format, the exact same list of defects, and make the same exact request for remediation (fix or refund). In this way there will be no doubt in their minds that they are dealing with an organized effort, making it harder to ignore or dismiss.

In order to better target our complaints, I've identified the following corporate officers within UBI:

YVES GUILLEMOT
President and CEO

ALAIN CORRE
Executive Director, EMEA Territories

LAURENT DETOC
Executive Director, North America

My suggestion would be to address the complaint to the CEO as well as the appropriate territory director. As you might expect, these individuals insulate themselves from direct contact with the consumer fairly well... there is no actual contact info posted on their web sites. I did however find contact info, including email addresses, for the following media relations and corporate communications folks:

Christophe Grandjean
Corporate Media Relations Coordinator
christophe.grandjean@ubisoft.com

Jaime Borasi
Senior Manager
Corporate Communications
jaime.borasi@ubisoft.com


My suggestion is to email the linked form letter to thse individuals, along with attachments (if necessary) documenting the defects in SH4, and request that they forward the email to the CEO and territory director. Names and email addresses... enough to hold them accountable, and suitably placed to forward the complaint to the actual addressees.

Not that I expect a satisfactory response. But that's where the "hold accountable" part comes in. After the two week grace period referenced in the 1st complaint letter (linked above), the next step is to fill out the on-line complaint form at the California AG web site, here:

https://app.dca.ca.gov/cru/gencomplaint.asp

Note that this form requires that you provide information regarding who at UBI you contacted about this issue. Our answer will be "the CEO", et al.

As to the complaint itself... just a repeat of what was included in the UBI letter. I would highly suggest that this be kept brief - perhaps a numerical count of defects by category (x number of critical defects, y number of non-critical) with maybe the top 3 or 4, such as those Neal spelled out in his petition thread, specifically referenced. A note that we would be willing to provide a complete list of defects on request would probably be a good idea as well.

And regarding the expected resolution... the only reasonable thing we can ask for here is a fix or a refund.

Now all the above links and suggestions are related to US purchasers. I live in the US, so you'll have to forgive me if this whole thing comes off a bit US-centric. I'm sure, however, that there are some enterprising folks out there who can dig up the same type of info and contacts for your parts of the world.

And even for folks in the US, you might also try poking around your State AG's web site to see if they have a similar vehicle for complaint. If so, there is no reason not to file the complaint in your state as well as in California. I do feel it's important to include California though, as that's the one common denominator among us and the place where the weight of our numbers will be most evident.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter....

JD

This sounds like the perfect solution to me. All I want is a fix or a refund and this seems like the best (most likely) way to get it.