Class action suit against UBI

I was chatting to a lawer friend of mine last night over dinner and I brought up the subject of the Sub Sim petition (he knows i'm a sub nut :-)

Anyway, he suggested that if the petition didn't work we should submit a class action suit against UBI. He felt there was a strong enough case and that if those that signed the petition were willing to put their names on the suit then we'd have no problem succeeding in the action.

He was a bit vague on what the result might be but said we should at least all be able to get the SHIV purchase price back from UBI and maybe a bit more, plus they would have to foot the bill of the class action suit.

Anyway, he's gonna look into a bit more. He reckons we'd have no problem getting representation on a no win no fee basis as its a no brainer.

Would this be of interest to the Sub Sim community ? At least it gives us an option if the petition fails.....what do you all think ?

[Psycluded]

Best idea ever.

That is, if you want to never have another Silent Hunter again. Ever.

[harrymanback]

Seems to me to be fairly inevitable that some games company will face one of these at some point. The policy of releasing clearly unfinished games seems to be the absolute norm - the problems with SHIV mirror my experiences with Battlefield 2 and Medieval 2.

Good thing is that it would only take one lawsuit and the whole industry would sit up and take notice.

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by Psycluded

Best idea ever.

That is, if you want to never have another Silent Hunter again. Ever.

I have to agree with Psycluded on this. If legal action were taken against UBI, then I think you can kiss any future releases in the SH series goodbye.

Nemo

[TDK1044]

If you want to make sure that Ubisoft never make another sub sim again then go for it. I don't know the validity of a potential legal claim against Ubisoft, but I do know that they don't make much profit from the Silent Hunter series.

Before people start throwing out numbers based on 300,000 sales of Silent Hunter 3 at $49, please understand that $49 is the retail price that you pay and not the price that the stores pay ubisoft in order to sell the product.

My view is that this would be a foolish venture.

[MaxT.dk]

Exactly what I've said regarding the 1.3 patch... UBI targeted SH4 at the main public for a reason... And this lawsuit will be just for the good of this little group of 100%-realism-and-historically-correct SH4 skippers and noone else

Just how I see it

[fredbass]

Who governs and holds a publisher responsible for their work anyway?

I think that's the deeper issue. I don't think it would be fair to single out any one particular publisher if many others work the same way.

[Hitman]

He was a bit vague on what the result might be but said we should at least all be able to get the SHIV purchase price back from UBI and maybe a bit more, plus they would have to foot the bill of the class action suit.

Legally speaking and according to spanish laws (Which I know quite well and are more or less similar to other EU countries in consumer's matters), in case of receiving a faulty product you can choose between: 1) Demanding the creator of it to correct it, or 2) Getting your money back plus resulting damage costs (If any). Yet if the creator doesn't want to correct faults or can't do it (If that's your option) and noone can fix it except him, you only have right to a compensation and your money back.

I'm only certain about one thing: When it comes to suing in the courts, lawyers always win. They will get their money no matter if you win or lose. (Not that I mean you friend was trying to get customers! I just point out that for the rest of people involved, winning or losing is uncertain)

So at best suing will make a lawyer happy and get your money back. You will still not have a working SH4, and any remote chance of UBI fixing it or a future SH5 will dissapear.

[rduffy34]

Sorry guys...I guess I'm just not as upset as some of you about this whole patch thing. I have more important things going on in my life without worrying about some court case for a game patch?

And yeah! We sue them? No more SH games....Is that truly worth a law suit over a goddamn patch that 9 times out of 10 they will probobly release anyway.

[theluckyone17]

Yeah, this has my vote of "bad idea." Ubi would suffer, the dev's would suffer (no more sub sims through Ubi), and we'd suffer. The lawyers would probably be the only ones that make out.

I don't know if this has been said yet (and I'm trying to keep this from flaming), but anybody who figures SH4 doesn't make the cut are more than free to help out on the Danger From The Deep project (dangerdeep.sourceforge.net). If SH4 is bad enough to frustrate you to the point of wanting to sue, take that frustration and redirect it to a good purpose.

[harrymanback]

I take the point publishers dont make a lot of money from these games, but thats hardly surprising given the average experience you get (joy and skull-cracking frustration in equal measure). I'm amazed PC games sell as much as they do given the hassle involved in playing them.

MaxT - I'm no hardcore sim-head and have never play a sub game before, so I guess i'm your 'main public'. I don't want 100% realism, I want enjoyment. I can say for the record that I wouldn't buy another SH game if it was in this state. For a start, the absence of any tutorial will put off most mainstream gamers (the game 'tutorials' are just mini missions, a tutorial actually teaches you how to do things).
The real problem thats killing my enjoyment is the problem of repeating missions - being asked to patrol of Honshu for the 4th running is starting to bore me. Such an easy bug to fix! Having read through this (excellent) forum I've tracked down Trigger Maru and hopefully that will fix it (once I've figured out how to install it).
Point is though that when the average PC game requires you to go to all this effort just to get a DECENT game experience, its never going to draw in enough people to make big money. Years of effort making teriffic games are spoilt by releasing them a couple of months early.

Oh and Fredbass - 'Who governs and holds a publisher responsible for their work anyway?'
Consumer Rights laws. Every country has them. They say that when you buy a product its supposed to be in 'good working order' or similar. Although thats open to interpretation, in my humble experience a lot of PC games arent, SHIV included

[Chock]

Yawn, I wondered how long we'd have to wait for the 'class action' thread.

Chock

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by rduffy34

Sorry guys...I guess I'm just not as upset as some of you about this whole patch thing. I have more important things going on in my life without worrying about some court case for a game patch?

And yeah! We sue them? No more SH games....Is that truly worth a law suit over a goddamn patch that 9 times out of 10 they will probobly release anyway.

Agreed 100%. Some people need to get a life. It's a game, for gods sake. Nobody's life, health or safety is at stake. You people need to go outside more.

[bruschi sauro]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

If you want to make sure that Ubisoft never make another sub sim again then go for it. I don't know the validity of a potential legal claim against Ubisoft, but I do know that they don't make much profit from the Silent Hunter series.

Before people start throwing out numbers based on 300,000 sales of Silent Hunter 3 at $49, please understand that $49 is the retail price that you pay and not the price that the stores pay ubisoft in order to sell the product.

My view is that this would be a foolish venture.

OK is right

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Psycluded

Best idea ever.

That is, if you want to never have another Silent Hunter again. Ever.

I agree completely, I am a lawyer in RL, if you want Ubisoft to NEVER, EVER make another Sub simulation again, or even drop out of the simulation market altogether, a class action suit is the best way to do it.