Torps & Merchant ships...

cohiba · 05-16-07, 09:09 AM

Greetings all!

Wow... Never plyd a sub sim before and thought I would try this out, I'm glad I did - its great! Allthough I must admit I'm a little intimidated by the level of detail, I'm learning a little bit each time I play, and this forum is the best!!

OK, on to my question (one of dozens I have)... does a merchant ship usually take more than 2 torps? It seems that when I put 2 torps into a merchant ship it will still limp along albeit flaming and listing to one side... but they dont always sink! does this have anything to do with the torp setting? should it be on impact and not area??

Thanks!!!!

btaft · 05-16-07, 09:22 AM

Welcome Cohiba,

Unfortunately there is no clear answer to your question. It is highly variable based on the type of merchant, size of merchant, cargo being carried (i.e. ammunition ships results can be quite spectacular), and where the hit is inflicted. Some ships like tankers (taking numerous hits sometimes) can be notoriously slow in sinking others can go down like a rock with a single hit. That same ship might also limp along like you stated if you hit it in a different part of the ship.

mookiemookie · 05-16-07, 09:26 AM

Historically, it was not uncommon to have merchant ships take more than 2 torpedoes to sink. Especially if it was a highly compartmentalized ship (more compartments = more hatches that can be closed to control flooding) or carring cargo like lumber, or a tanker (meant to carry liquid, so flooding is much harder!).

Some general tips are to make sure you're aiming your torpedoes at different parts of the ship in order to create flooding in more compartments. Impact shots are good for targeting specific parts of the ship such as engines/fuel tanks or ammo bunkers under the guns in warships. Magnetic detonators are good for "breaking a ships back" which means that you've broken the keel and the ship has cracked in two and looks like a "V" shape.

gutterrat13 · 05-16-07, 09:27 AM

have you tried changing the running depth of your torpedoes? Hitting lower on the hull or getting a magnetic influence hit (torpedo exploding underneath the ship) will give better results.

Arctic Fox · 05-16-07, 09:44 AM

Yesterday I had 2 instances where I was aiming for a dd (ordered to take out the convoy escort) and missed but got message that enemy ship was destroyed. In both instances the ships sunk were 3 000+ ton merchants.

cohiba · 05-17-07, 04:51 AM

thanks for the response!

seems i've got a lot of training to do!

daft · 05-17-07, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Yesterday I had 2 instances where I was aiming for a dd (ordered to take out the convoy escort) and missed but got message that enemy ship was destroyed. In both instances the ships sunk were 3 000+ ton merchants.

Last night I ran into a small convoy with two passenger liners escorted by 4 DD's. I managed to produce my worst TDC solution to date, and fired all six bow tubes in a spread to compensate for the poor solution at the largest passenger liner. Five torps missed aft, and I cursed myself for rushing the approach when the 6th hit in the aft part with a loud WHACK! To my amazement it sank stern first, and while it was going down, one of the torps that missed struck a DD behind the liner and sank it. I was pretty pleased with my luck I must say.

Galanti · 05-17-07, 06:39 AM

What is also speculated is that many times the game will model a dud by prematurly detonating your fish a yard or two away from the hull. This will look like a solid hit, but using the event camera reveals no gaping hole in the hull. However, because the torpedo has a damage radius, you will still inflict some damage to the vessel, and it may seem to be a good hit.

I used five fish to sink a large freighter last night. No holes were evident, some fire and a slight list, but after five of these 'close misses' the seams must of opened up and her and she rolled over and sank.

Other times I'll hit with one, but it will completely impact the target, resulting in a gaping hole and immediate listing and slowdown. I've never seen a merchant of any size survive two shots like this.

My suggestion before early '43 is to always use the slow speed setting on the Mk14, and try for steep angle shots (ie signifcantly less than 90 degrees).

dean_acheson · 05-17-07, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gutterrat13

have you tried changing the running depth of your torpedoes? Hitting lower on the hull or getting a magnetic influence hit (torpedo exploding underneath the ship) will give better results.

I haven't had a lick of luck with the magnetic exploders.

What is everyone else's experience?

I have stuck with the contact exploder, which I am running a decent success rate with.

AVGWarhawk · 05-17-07, 11:21 AM

I have seen many a merchant in a convoy steam off after a few torps in the side. I only hope to end round the buggers to finish it off. Anyway, two torps placed around midships usually gets the kill. You big lumbering freighters need a few more.

I have not really tried the magnetic setting yet so I can not comment on working or not.

AhhhFresh · 05-17-07, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galanti

My suggestion before early '43 is to always use the slow speed setting on the Mk14, and try for steep angle shots (ie signifcantly less than 90 degrees).

Does this negate the "close premature explosions"? I know that historically, high angle shots helped with the bad firing pins, but does that do the job here as well? I assumed they were modeling that type of dud after the also faulty magnetic influence detectors.

I feel strongly that it is definitely the duds that are making people think that torpedoes are underpowered... as I can sink a large merchant reasonably reliably with two solid hits from Mark X's, which hardly dud at all, but are much much smaller.

Jaber · 05-17-07, 02:51 PM

I saw somewhere in a tutorial or something that the 'Contact' and 'Influence' Torp settings were actually backwards. Does anyone know if this is still true or not?

Thanks!

CaptainHaplo · 05-17-07, 06:13 PM

Magnetic settings can and do often cause prematures that look like hits. What happens is the game models "oh there is a mag field - must be a ship" and the torp goes boom. Problem is - the torp hasnt gotten real close to the target - and so when it goes boom and the damage radius is calculated - its possible and often occurs is that the ship is outside the damage area.... meaning - it did not "premature" by definition - but still wasnt close enough to do much.

Because of this - I don't think many people are using magnetics anymore. Like historical skippers, we learn to use contact only.

05-16-07, 09:09 AM	#1
cohiba Nub Join Date: May 2007 Location: St. Lucia, West Indies Posts: 3 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Torps & Merchant ships... Greetings all! Wow... Never plyd a sub sim before and thought I would try this out, I'm glad I did - its great! Allthough I must admit I'm a little intimidated by the level of detail, I'm learning a little bit each time I play, and this forum is the best!! OK, on to my question (one of dozens I have)... does a merchant ship usually take more than 2 torps? It seems that when I put 2 torps into a merchant ship it will still limp along albeit flaming and listing to one side... but they dont always sink! does this have anything to do with the torp setting? should it be on impact and not area?? Thanks!!!!

05-16-07, 09:26 AM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Historically, it was not uncommon to have merchant ships take more than 2 torpedoes to sink. Especially if it was a highly compartmentalized ship (more compartments = more hatches that can be closed to control flooding) or carring cargo like lumber, or a tanker (meant to carry liquid, so flooding is much harder!). Some general tips are to make sure you're aiming your torpedoes at different parts of the ship in order to create flooding in more compartments. Impact shots are good for targeting specific parts of the ship such as engines/fuel tanks or ammo bunkers under the guns in warships. Magnetic detonators are good for "breaking a ships back" which means that you've broken the keel and the ship has cracked in two and looks like a "V" shape. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

05-17-07, 11:21 AM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I have seen many a merchant in a convoy steam off after a few torps in the side. I only hope to end round the buggers to finish it off. Anyway, two torps placed around midships usually gets the kill. You big lumbering freighters need a few more. I have not really tried the magnetic setting yet so I can not comment on working or not. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-17-07, 06:13 PM	#13
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Magnetic settings can and do often cause prematures that look like hits. What happens is the game models "oh there is a mag field - must be a ship" and the torp goes boom. Problem is - the torp hasnt gotten real close to the target - and so when it goes boom and the damage radius is calculated - its possible and often occurs is that the ship is outside the damage area.... meaning - it did not "premature" by definition - but still wasnt close enough to do much. Because of this - I don't think many people are using magnetics anymore. Like historical skippers, we learn to use contact only. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

05-16-07, 09:22 AM	#2
btaft Soundman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 147 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Welcome Cohiba, Unfortunately there is no clear answer to your question. It is highly variable based on the type of merchant, size of merchant, cargo being carried (i.e. ammunition ships results can be quite spectacular), and where the hit is inflicted. Some ships like tankers (taking numerous hits sometimes) can be notoriously slow in sinking others can go down like a rock with a single hit. That same ship might also limp along like you stated if you hit it in a different part of the ship.

05-16-07, 09:27 AM	#4
gutterrat13 Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Prince George, BC, Canada Posts: 13 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	have you tried changing the running depth of your torpedoes? Hitting lower on the hull or getting a magnetic influence hit (torpedo exploding underneath the ship) will give better results.

05-16-07, 09:44 AM	#5
Arctic Fox Swabbie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boksburg, South Africa Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yesterday I had 2 instances where I was aiming for a dd (ordered to take out the convoy escort) and missed but got message that enemy ship was destroyed. In both instances the ships sunk were 3 000+ ton merchants.

05-17-07, 04:51 AM	#6
cohiba Nub Join Date: May 2007 Location: St. Lucia, West Indies Posts: 3 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	thanks for the response! seems i've got a lot of training to do!

05-17-07, 06:39 AM	#8
Galanti Captain Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 536 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	What is also speculated is that many times the game will model a dud by prematurly detonating your fish a yard or two away from the hull. This will look like a solid hit, but using the event camera reveals no gaping hole in the hull. However, because the torpedo has a damage radius, you will still inflict some damage to the vessel, and it may seem to be a good hit. I used five fish to sink a large freighter last night. No holes were evident, some fire and a slight list, but after five of these 'close misses' the seams must of opened up and her and she rolled over and sank. Other times I'll hit with one, but it will completely impact the target, resulting in a gaping hole and immediate listing and slowdown. I've never seen a merchant of any size survive two shots like this. My suggestion before early '43 is to always use the slow speed setting on the Mk14, and try for steep angle shots (ie signifcantly less than 90 degrees).

05-17-07, 02:51 PM	#12
Jaber Swabbie Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I saw somewhere in a tutorial or something that the 'Contact' and 'Influence' Torp settings were actually backwards. Does anyone know if this is still true or not? Thanks!