AA gun severely in need of a nerfing!

7Enigma · 05-03-07, 06:39 AM

So I've finally moved into the later years of the war and have a new sub with the ability to have 2 AA guns on it. My aft gun is the traditional 20mm, but my fore gun is now a 40mm powerhouse. This sucker shoots 4 round "clips", and takes about 2 seconds to reload. Doesn't seem very effective at AA duty due to the slow firing rate (my crew seems much more adept with the 20mm machine-gun like fire), but it is INCREDIBLY effective against merchant shipping. Too effective IMO.

My first foray into using this weapon against a ship was on my latest patrol where i had exhausted my deck gun ammo and torps. I was frustrated that a 10k ton merchant ship would have to be passed up on after expending 2 torps and a handful of deck gun ammo. I pulled up along side and started firing with my 20mm. As expected nothing really happened. After 2 clips of HE rounds I got ready to sulk away.

Then I remembered this sub had 2 AA guns. I hit F7 again to go to my fore 40mm AA gun and 1 second and 2 shots later it was destroyed. I didn't think anything of it since this ship must have been swiss cheese after all the damage I inflicted on it and this 40mm shot was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

So further along I passed 2 sampans. Normally I hit these with 4-5 deck gun rounds and they're done, or unload with my 20mm AA gun if I can get close enough quickly. This time I pulled out the 40mm AA and again in about 2 seconds and 4 rounds they were destroyed. Now I was getting concerned...

I was still heading back to Midway for a refitment and happened to pass an unescorted convoy of 2 medium merchants. With the previous odd results I wanted to do a test. I ran at flank speed towards the rear ship in the convoy. I got to about 700m and opened fire. After 8 shots (2 clips and probably under 10 seconds), the merchant started to catch on fire. Another 2 clips and it was heavily on fire, and before the 5th clip (maybe 20 seconds tops) it was destroyed. Please note I was still far enough away that I wasn't targeting anything specifically, just aiming for the ship.

I turned west to start my attack from the rear of the other merchant. No guns from this angle allowed me to get within 400m without taking fire. I counted my rounds as I aimed midway into the rear of the boat. 15 rounds and the ship was destroyed.

So I don't know the actual makeup of these 40mm rounds, but would assume they are vastly smaller (and with MUCH less kinetic energy) then the deck gun ammo. Basically this 40mm AA gun is the equivalent of a deck gun on steriods. Seems to have very similar power to the deck gun but fires at 20-30times the rate.

My next test will be charging directly into a GUARDED convoy and see if the same thing happens against enemy DD's. If it does, I might have to limit my use of this uber-weapon to only AA duty and if I run into the ship-that-will-not-sink when I'm out of munitions.

Anyone else experience this? (1.2 patch, currently no ammo or gun mods being used)

Kayback · 05-03-07, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7Enigma

So I don't know the actual makeup of these 40mm rounds, but would assume they are vastly smaller (and with MUCH less kinetic energy) then the deck gun ammo. Basically this 40mm AA gun is the equivalent of a deck gun on steriods. Seems to have very similar power to the deck gun but fires at 20-30times the rate.

Anyone else experience this? (1.2 patch, currently no ammo or gun mods being used)

I've just mentioned the exact same thing in another topic. While IRL the 40mm Bofor gun is a fantastic weapon, IMHO it's a little too effective against steel shipping in the game.

I seems to me that the gun does the same damage as the deck gun, only as you said in rapid fire.

IRL it fires a 2lb (+/- 1kg) HE round at 2800fps, with a ceiling of around 8000'. Not bad, but against a destroyer? The 1.9lbs AP round would be slightly better, but only just. It's penetration is at 0 yards-2.7", 2,000 yards-1.2", 4,000 yards-0.60", 6000 yards-0.45". Os to punch 3" of steel armour you'd have to basically have your gun barrel touching the enemy ships

Still seems slightly powerful in the game.

KBK

Subnuts · 05-03-07, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayback

IRL it fires a 2lb (+/- 1kg) HE round at 2800fps, with a ceiling of around 8000'. Not bad, but against a destroyer? The 1.9lbs AP round would be slightly better, but only just. It's penetration is at 0 yards-2.7", 2,000 yards-1.2", 4,000 yards-0.60", 6000 yards-0.45". Os to punch 3" of steel armour you'd have to basically have your gun barrel touching the enemy ships

I'm not sure where you're getting "3 inches of steel armour" from. In terms of armor plating, the average WWII era destroyer didn't wear much 'cept for a smile. On a Fletcher-class destroyer, for example, the high tensile steel plates at the waterline midships were only about 7/10ths of an inch thick. Below the waterline, they were only about 1/2 inch thick. Not a whole lot of stopping power.

Kayback · 05-03-07, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

I'm not sure where you're getting "3 inches of steel armour" from.

It came out wrong. I was trying to save typing time and in doing so, mis stated myself.

I was trying to talk both about the heavier ships, which the 40mm chews up just as bad, as well as the gun turrets some of the bigger vessels, and the destroyers themselves do have.

Against these heavier ships, and the heavy, sloped armour of the gun housings, the 40mm Bofor wouldn't touch them, even if you shot at point blank range.

KBK

7Enigma · 05-03-07, 09:00 AM

And I'm talking about huge 10,000 ton merchants going down in 10-20 RANDOM shots, not even aiming at the waterline or the engine room (where a possible explosion could cause the sinking). The damage modeling just seems extremely out of whack for this particular weapon.

Galanti · 05-03-07, 09:30 AM

I've cut all damage by a third in my shells.zon for all sub-based guns (I left all surface ship guns as is - they should be able to kick our teeth in!), but I haven't had the chance to test the Bofors. I'll try at the earliest possible moment and let you know if it makes a difference.

05-03-07, 06:39 AM	#1
7Enigma Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 103 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	AA gun severely in need of a nerfing! So I've finally moved into the later years of the war and have a new sub with the ability to have 2 AA guns on it. My aft gun is the traditional 20mm, but my fore gun is now a 40mm powerhouse. This sucker shoots 4 round "clips", and takes about 2 seconds to reload. Doesn't seem very effective at AA duty due to the slow firing rate (my crew seems much more adept with the 20mm machine-gun like fire), but it is INCREDIBLY effective against merchant shipping. Too effective IMO. My first foray into using this weapon against a ship was on my latest patrol where i had exhausted my deck gun ammo and torps. I was frustrated that a 10k ton merchant ship would have to be passed up on after expending 2 torps and a handful of deck gun ammo. I pulled up along side and started firing with my 20mm. As expected nothing really happened. After 2 clips of HE rounds I got ready to sulk away. Then I remembered this sub had 2 AA guns. I hit F7 again to go to my fore 40mm AA gun and 1 second and 2 shots later it was destroyed. I didn't think anything of it since this ship must have been swiss cheese after all the damage I inflicted on it and this 40mm shot was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. So further along I passed 2 sampans. Normally I hit these with 4-5 deck gun rounds and they're done, or unload with my 20mm AA gun if I can get close enough quickly. This time I pulled out the 40mm AA and again in about 2 seconds and 4 rounds they were destroyed. Now I was getting concerned... I was still heading back to Midway for a refitment and happened to pass an unescorted convoy of 2 medium merchants. With the previous odd results I wanted to do a test. I ran at flank speed towards the rear ship in the convoy. I got to about 700m and opened fire. After 8 shots (2 clips and probably under 10 seconds), the merchant started to catch on fire. Another 2 clips and it was heavily on fire, and before the 5th clip (maybe 20 seconds tops) it was destroyed. Please note I was still far enough away that I wasn't targeting anything specifically, just aiming for the ship. I turned west to start my attack from the rear of the other merchant. No guns from this angle allowed me to get within 400m without taking fire. I counted my rounds as I aimed midway into the rear of the boat. 15 rounds and the ship was destroyed. So I don't know the actual makeup of these 40mm rounds, but would assume they are vastly smaller (and with MUCH less kinetic energy) then the deck gun ammo. Basically this 40mm AA gun is the equivalent of a deck gun on steriods. Seems to have very similar power to the deck gun but fires at 20-30times the rate. My next test will be charging directly into a GUARDED convoy and see if the same thing happens against enemy DD's. If it does, I might have to limit my use of this uber-weapon to only AA duty and if I run into the ship-that-will-not-sink when I'm out of munitions. Anyone else experience this? (1.2 patch, currently no ammo or gun mods being used)

05-03-07, 09:00 AM	#5
7Enigma Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 103 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	And I'm talking about huge 10,000 ton merchants going down in 10-20 RANDOM shots, not even aiming at the waterline or the engine room (where a possible explosion could cause the sinking). The damage modeling just seems extremely out of whack for this particular weapon.

05-03-07, 09:30 AM	#6
Galanti Captain Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 536 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	I've cut all damage by a third in my shells.zon for all sub-based guns (I left all surface ship guns as is - they should be able to kick our teeth in!), but I haven't had the chance to test the Bofors. I'll try at the earliest possible moment and let you know if it makes a difference.