You got to to be kidding me!!

supposedtobeworking · 04-08-07, 09:41 PM

I just put 6 torps into a small modern freighter and the thing is still chugging along! I thought I read a post about this a while back--have I discovered yet another bug? My torps did all hit near the stern, but still you'd think 6 would take the little thing down--also to note: there is no visible torpedo damage on the ship besides some little flickering flame in the aft--no gaping holes where the torpedo struck-not even a dent!! Anyone else experience this? I was using contact influence torps on slow setting....

update: I swung around and put two more torps into her side--this time the damage showed and she went down--but seriously 8 torps for that little ship--is this historical or something?

John Channing · 04-08-07, 09:45 PM

Were you using Mark 10's? There is a known problem with them.

JCC

supposedtobeworking · 04-08-07, 09:53 PM

nope mk 14 as far as I know--whats the problem with the mk 10s??? I know there is a speed issue with the fast setting--is there something else I don't know about dealing with their damage??

clayton · 04-08-07, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supposedtobeworking

nope mk 14 as far as I know--whats the problem with the mk 10s??? I know there is a speed issue with the fast setting--is there something else I don't know about dealing with their damage??

Well, how about history? The Mark 14, among other things, was known to have the weakest warhead of any nation during the war. TNT as opposed to Torpex -- something like that. Also, the contact exploder had issues during the early part of the war. Right angle hits and the firing pin would not engage.

Read about Daspit on the Tinosa, he fired a total of fifteen torpedos for no sinking on a stationary 20K Whaler. He claimed thirteen hit the target; He saw a splash! Contact exploder issue!

supposedtobeworking · 04-08-07, 10:22 PM

I see-well if this is modeled then ok fine, but I did not hit the target at a 90 angle. In fact the torps that sent her down were at a 90 angle, the others hit at the stern while she was facing away from me. The problem is how do we know what is modeled as duds and what are bugs...? dud or bug--that is the question.

clayton · 04-08-07, 10:29 PM

Good question! I suppose a bug is a dud, right???

Also, in the graphics menu turn your 3d ship damage slider all the way up. You should see damage. If it is all the way up, and you didn't see any damage, then I suppose you hit the target, saw the splash, and the torp bounced off the hull. It happened that way alot during the war. What year are you playing. Daspit's attempt was on the 24th of July, 43. I believe the Navy got everything figured out by 44.

SteamWake · 04-08-07, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayton

Well, how about history? The Mark 14, among other things, was known to have the weakest warhead of any nation during the war. TNT as opposed to Torpex -- something like that.!

We could only hope that level of detail was modeled in this game... hope.

supposedtobeworking · 04-08-07, 10:46 PM

clayton i have damage slider all the way up!! and I just tried to sink another freighter--this time 3 torps into the side at 90 AOB. no damage visible except flames on the deck--no holes though--it seems odd that dud torpedoes would cause damage on the deck of the ship and not penetrate the hull...anyways i hope this is not yet another bug--how many other people have experienced similar situations?? I am in 41 just started a career--1st patrol.

possibly found out a "solution": I fired another fish at shallow depth--as shallow as I could put the dial...and set to contact detonator. This one penetrated the hull--all of the other torps were set to contact influence and set to 5 or more depth. Also whether is rough--15m/s winds. maybe this has something to do with it. All the torps which hit and penetrated the hull were at the shallowest setting and possible all on contact detonator as well--I'lll keep ecperimenting but if anyone else notices this pattern post..

clayton · 04-08-07, 10:58 PM

You know, I remember having the same problem with damage not showing up, and I either messed with the slider or I tweaked my graphic selections in the menu, and all of a sudden there it was! Do you have enviroment effects on? It seems that the game wants to limit you to a certain minimum frame rate, i.e. ghost crewmembers!

Are maybe just being able to see past them while in fog. Who knows...

supposedtobeworking · 04-08-07, 11:02 PM

this is defintely not a graphics problem--like i said in my edit above--the torps penetrate when set at shallow depth and contact detonator. weather is rough--maybe the deeper torps don't hit the hull quite right or too deep to penetrate. there is visible damage on the deck in either case and in both situations, the torps which were set shallow and on contact took the ships down, as well as showed damage gaping holes in the hull-a bit too much for coincidence I think..and no I have environment effects off.

clayton · 04-08-07, 11:15 PM

My bad! I should read more closely. I thought you were not seeing any damage at all. No holes, nothing. Well, the Mark 14 was known to travel 11 feet deeper than what was set. Captains commented on seeing a splash when the torp went off within the ships magnetic field and it wasn't breaking the ships back like BuOrd advertised. But why would you see damage with those six hits? Hmmm... Either the smaller warhead was modeled, certain areas within the ship (NYGM mod for SH3) can take more or less damage was modeled, or it's a bug. BTW, I wish it was a bug I was having. I'm having about a 75% success rate with my torps, and raking up far too many kills than what was reality.

Charos · 04-08-07, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

Were you using Mark 10's? There is a known problem with them.

JCC

Yes please elaborate on this KNOWN problem.

I have tested MK 10's for speed and that is correct, their range is also correct. what else is wrong with them?

Galanti · 04-09-07, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charos

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

Were you using Mark 10's? There is a known problem with them.

JCC

Yes please elaborate on this KNOWN problem.

I have tested MK 10's for speed and that is correct, their range is also correct. what else is wrong with them?

I don't know if there's a consensus yet, but I've had problems inflicting severe damage with the 10s. They apparently do 50-100 points of damage, well below the Mk. 14 (100-150 I think) , even though the warhead height was the same (different explosives?).

All this means is that there is a greater chance of the warhead not being able to do enough damage to the hitpoints of a given compartment for any discenrable effect to show.

They do function properly in other respects, and I've had my share of circulars, prematures and deep runs with them.

Sailor Steve · 04-09-07, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayton

[Well, how about history? The Mark 14, among other things, was known to have the weakest warhead of any nation during the war. TNT as opposed to Torpex -- something like that.

Actually that's not true: the US invented Torpex. The Germans had what they called Hexanite. It was the British who were still using Tri-Nitro Toluene. Also the Mark 14 had 643 pounds of the stuff, which was nearly as much as the Germans' 661 pounds.

There was nothing wrong with the Mark 10 exept its age. It worked better than the Mark 14; but it only had one speed and fairly short range.

Quote:

Also, the contact exploder had issues during the early part of the war. Right angle hits and the firing pin would not engage.

The magnetic failures were even more dramatic.

Quote:

Read about Daspit on the Tinosa, he fired a total of fifteen torpedos for no sinking on a stationary 20K Whaler. He claimed thirteen hit the target; He saw a splash! Contact exploder issue!

Read about Prien at Norway: if the Germans had had better torpedoes they would have sunk the Warspite (3 times!), 7 light cruisers and 20 or more merchants. Prien fired all his torpedoes at anchored ships; they didn't react at all-apparently they never even knew they had been attacked.

I'm not making light of US torpedo problems; I'm just pointing out that we weren't the only ones.

Faamecanic · 04-09-07, 10:57 AM

The damage model in this game is buggy at best.

10 Mk14 torps at a Large Tanker, all spread along her starboard side, with 15-20 ft set as the depth setting so that at least 5 were under her keel. She looses her rudder, both screws, listing at a 30 - 40 deg angle AT LEAST, and her deck is underwater.... but keeps going along at 7 kts with the convoy

Yep...happend to me. I have also had this happen with Freighters too.... sometimes 1 torp breaks her back...sometimes a full load of 6 torps cant bring them down....

04-08-07, 09:41 PM	#1
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	You got to to be kidding me!! I just put 6 torps into a small modern freighter and the thing is still chugging along! I thought I read a post about this a while back--have I discovered yet another bug? My torps did all hit near the stern, but still you'd think 6 would take the little thing down--also to note: there is no visible torpedo damage on the ship besides some little flickering flame in the aft--no gaping holes where the torpedo struck-not even a dent!! Anyone else experience this? I was using contact influence torps on slow setting.... update: I swung around and put two more torps into her side--this time the damage showed and she went down--but seriously 8 torps for that little ship--is this historical or something? Last edited by supposedtobeworking; 04-08-07 at 09:52 PM.

04-08-07, 10:29 PM	#6
clayton Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: At your mom's house... Posts: 567 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 0	Good question! I suppose a bug is a dud, right??? Also, in the graphics menu turn your 3d ship damage slider all the way up. You should see damage. If it is all the way up, and you didn't see any damage, then I suppose you hit the target, saw the splash, and the torp bounced off the hull. It happened that way alot during the war. What year are you playing. Daspit's attempt was on the 24th of July, 43. I believe the Navy got everything figured out by 44. __________________ Active member of the 'Church of SH4'

04-08-07, 10:46 PM	#8
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	clayton i have damage slider all the way up!! and I just tried to sink another freighter--this time 3 torps into the side at 90 AOB. no damage visible except flames on the deck--no holes though--it seems odd that dud torpedoes would cause damage on the deck of the ship and not penetrate the hull...anyways i hope this is not yet another bug--how many other people have experienced similar situations?? I am in 41 just started a career--1st patrol. possibly found out a "solution": I fired another fish at shallow depth--as shallow as I could put the dial...and set to contact detonator. This one penetrated the hull--all of the other torps were set to contact influence and set to 5 or more depth. Also whether is rough--15m/s winds. maybe this has something to do with it. All the torps which hit and penetrated the hull were at the shallowest setting and possible all on contact detonator as well--I'lll keep ecperimenting but if anyone else notices this pattern post.. Last edited by supposedtobeworking; 04-08-07 at 10:59 PM.

04-08-07, 10:58 PM	#9
clayton Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: At your mom's house... Posts: 567 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 0	You know, I remember having the same problem with damage not showing up, and I either messed with the slider or I tweaked my graphic selections in the menu, and all of a sudden there it was! Do you have enviroment effects on? It seems that the game wants to limit you to a certain minimum frame rate, i.e. ghost crewmembers! Are maybe just being able to see past them while in fog. Who knows... __________________ Active member of the 'Church of SH4'

04-08-07, 11:02 PM	#10
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	this is defintely not a graphics problem--like i said in my edit above--the torps penetrate when set at shallow depth and contact detonator. weather is rough--maybe the deeper torps don't hit the hull quite right or too deep to penetrate. there is visible damage on the deck in either case and in both situations, the torps which were set shallow and on contact took the ships down, as well as showed damage gaping holes in the hull-a bit too much for coincidence I think..and no I have environment effects off. Last edited by supposedtobeworking; 04-08-07 at 11:13 PM.

04-08-07, 09:45 PM	#2
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	Were you using Mark 10's? There is a known problem with them. JCC

04-08-07, 09:53 PM	#3
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	nope mk 14 as far as I know--whats the problem with the mk 10s??? I know there is a speed issue with the fast setting--is there something else I don't know about dealing with their damage??

04-08-07, 10:22 PM	#5
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	I see-well if this is modeled then ok fine, but I did not hit the target at a 90 angle. In fact the torps that sent her down were at a 90 angle, the others hit at the stern while she was facing away from me. The problem is how do we know what is modeled as duds and what are bugs...? dud or bug--that is the question.

04-08-07, 11:15 PM	#11
clayton Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: At your mom's house... Posts: 567 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 0	My bad! I should read more closely. I thought you were not seeing any damage at all. No holes, nothing. Well, the Mark 14 was known to travel 11 feet deeper than what was set. Captains commented on seeing a splash when the torp went off within the ships magnetic field and it wasn't breaking the ships back like BuOrd advertised. But why would you see damage with those six hits? Hmmm... Either the smaller warhead was modeled, certain areas within the ship (NYGM mod for SH3) can take more or less damage was modeled, or it's a bug. BTW, I wish it was a bug I was having. I'm having about a 75% success rate with my torps, and raking up far too many kills than what was reality. __________________ Active member of the 'Church of SH4'

04-09-07, 10:57 AM	#15
Faamecanic Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Off your Stb side with good solution Posts: 1,065 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	The damage model in this game is buggy at best. 10 Mk14 torps at a Large Tanker, all spread along her starboard side, with 15-20 ft set as the depth setting so that at least 5 were under her keel. She looses her rudder, both screws, listing at a 30 - 40 deg angle AT LEAST, and her deck is underwater.... but keeps going along at 7 kts with the convoy Yep...happend to me. I have also had this happen with Freighters too.... sometimes 1 torp breaks her back...sometimes a full load of 6 torps cant bring them down....