Some GWX questions/comments.

[cardician]

So even though I'm still new to SH3, I decided to add GWX instead of just playing stock for awhile. So far so good. No technical problems at least. Fresh install of SH3, patched, GWX, patched, SH3 commander, patch. Good to go.

So, I start up the game and decide to run through the naval academy again, especially because it gives you more renown when starting the career. I get to the deck gun training and notice immediately that its a LOT harder to down the ships. Fine, realistic, alright. I aim below the waterline and eventually sink them all. Also, its a lot harder to aim and I'm good at aiming the deck gun. I realize that the rocking of the boat is effecting it. Alright, fine, more realism. However, what seems strange is that in order to hit the targets I have to aim the cross hairs two notches to the left. So instead of the middle line of the crossh hair (zoomed in) lining up with where you want the gun to shoot, it literally has to be left of where I'm trying to hit. What? Is that supposed to be added realism? I'm pretty sure that the gun sight would actually be installed to account for the fact that its set off to the right of the barrell so that center on the target is where the bullet goes. Why even have the center line of the cross hair if you literally have to aim to the left of it? No huge deal I guess as it can be adjusted for, but it definitely was not this way in stock SH3 and I don't understand the point of changing it.

Next, the flak gun exercise. Harder to down planes but I'm not very good with the flak gun for some reason. I did think it was weird that now the planes actually attack. When I played this training in stock they just flew around. This time they were attacking me. Weird but no biggie I suppose.

Now for the torpedoes. Wow. Though I guess I still managed to get some one hit sinks, its certainly different. I got some great shots and the boats just kept chugging along. The last boat had its entire back half submerged with just the front half sticking above water, wasn't moving, but still hadn't sunk. I sat there watching it for some time waiting and eventually just fired another torpedoe into the front to down it and end it. Would it have eventually gone down?

Now, my only real problem I have with GWX so far, other than the weirdness of the deck gun aiming, is shooting torpedoes. The enter key no longer works for firing. This is a big deal for me since I'm just learning to shoot without using lock on. Kind of hard to aim where you want the torpedoe to go, then click and move the mouse to press the fire button. If the ship you're targetting is moving, by the time you click the fire button the crosshair is no longer pointed where you left it. How do I re-enable enter allowing me to fire so that I can keep the cross hair positioned and fire the torpedoe?

Oh, two more things. One, the floating wooden clock thing at the top of all the screens. What is it? I can't seem to make it actually turn on like the chronometer, so whats it for? Hows it work? Also, is there any way to get rid of the helper compass thing on the nav map? I liked seeing my ship before. What I'd really like is the ability to turn that on and off like you can with the helpers on the tools by clicking on the question mark.

Otherwise, so far so good. I wish GWX was a little more configurable as I'd love to have most aspects of it but still be able to enable the big one hit torpedo explosions. Sometimes its just satisfying to see a ship split in two when hit by a single torpedoe. Haven't had a chance to see it in action during a career yet. Tonight though

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by cardician

.....The enter key no longer works for firing. This is a big deal for me since I'm just learning to shoot without using lock on. Kind of hard to aim where you want the torpedoe to go, then click and move the mouse to press the fire button. If the ship you're targetting is moving, by the time you click the fire button the crosshair is no longer pointed where you left it. How do I re-enable enter allowing me to fire so that I can keep the cross hair positioned and fire the torpedoe?

CRTL+ENTER has been used ever since stock SH3. Let me ask you, how many times did you fire a torpedo while using '+' to up your TC? If you still want to re-enable the enter key then do a search for SetKeys, a handy utility which allows your to manually change key assignments.

Originally Posted by cardician

...I'd love to have most aspects of it but still be able to enable the big one hit torpedo explosions. Sometimes its just satisfying to see a ship split in two when hit by a single torpedoe. Haven't had a chance to see it in action during a career yet. Tonight though

You are still going to get this, just not as often. If you want an explosion, find a Pyro Ammunition Ship.

[cardician]

Oh, its ctrl+enter? Got it. I could have sworn in stock I just used enter. Good point though, I can see accidently hitting + and messing things up. Smart design decision.

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by cardician

Alright, fine, more realism. However, what seems strange is that in order to hit the targets I have to aim the cross hairs two notches to the left. So instead of the middle line of the crossh hair (zoomed in) lining up with where you want the gun to shoot, it literally has to be left of where I'm trying to hit. What? Is that supposed to be added realism? I'm pretty sure that the gun sight would actually be installed to account for the fact that its set off to the right of the barrell so that center on the target is where the bullet goes. Why even have the center line of the cross hair if you literally have to aim to the left of it? No huge deal I guess as it can be adjusted for, but it definitely was not this way in stock SH3 and I don't understand the point of changing it.

I don't know exactly how the change was made but the rational is simple. The way stock SH3 was using the trajectories and the aimimg was totally wrong and unrealistic. When you fire a bullet it is affected by the movement of your gun and the general conditions of its environment. GWX just made this process realistic. If you don't like it you can always use the automatic mode where you're asking your crew to open fire and you navigate the boat.

Originally Posted by cardician

Next, the flak gun exercise. Harder to down planes but I'm not very good with the flak gun for some reason. I did think it was weird that now the planes actually attack. When I played this training in stock they just flew around. This time they were attacking me. Weird but no biggie I suppose.

In WWII planes were the menace of U-Boats. Now think of it. You're in the middle of the Ocean, you've just sunk a whole convoy and those two allied planes see you. What do you think they will do circle and admire the view or try to send you to kingdom come? It's not about making it difficult, it's about to make it realistic and reasonable.

Originally Posted by cardician

Now for the torpedoes. Wow. Though I guess I still managed to get some one hit sinks, its certainly different. I got some great shots and the boats just kept chugging along. The last boat had its entire back half submerged with just the front half sticking above water, wasn't moving, but still hadn't sunk. I sat there watching it for some time waiting and eventually just fired another torpedoe into the front to down it and end it. Would it have eventually gone down?

Dan already answer this one, so if you need to see more fires and explosions try to enable this mod http://files.filefront.com/GWX___Spe.../fileinfo.html

Originally Posted by cardician

Oh, two more things. One, the floating wooden clock thing at the top of all the screens. What is it? I can't seem to make it actually turn on like the chronometer, so whats it for? Hows it work?

The chronometer is operational in the periscope room. You click on it and it runs, simple. It works exactly as the clock in SH3. In all other screens if you don't like to see it just move it (via drag and drop) to the top of the screen where it will be out of sight.

[cardician]

Sorry, just wanted to say that I'm not trying to complain. I like GWX and SH3 is awesome. I have the utmost respect for what the GWX crew accomplished. I'm just trying to get some clarification on a few things, not to mention all the stuff I'm realizing is hidden away in the gem that is GWX (like the navmap stuff and the flag map stuff). However, if you're goin to respond, please do so with useful information. I'm not trying to start anything or cause problems. I'm just looking for some clarification and help. That being said...

Originally Posted by melnibonian

I don't know exactly how the change was made but the rational is simple. The way stock SH3 was using the trajectories and the aimimg was totally wrong and unrealistic. When you fire a bullet it is affected by the movement of your gun and the general conditions of its environment. GWX just made this process realistic. If you don't like it you can always use the automatic mode where you're asking your crew to open fire and you navigate the boat.

The deck gun change, as I said is fine. I understand it, its more realistic. What I don't understand is why the crosshair is now pointless. You have to aim to the left of center in order for the projectile to go where you're aiming. That does not make sense as the targetting reticule would have been installed on the gun to account for the fact that its set off to the right of the barrell. I understand the bobbing and stuff affecting trajectory and distance of the shots, no argument there. Just wondering what the justification is for this. If you don't know, well then feel free not to comment as all you're doing is creating controversy where there is none.

Originally Posted by melnibonian

In WWII planes were the menace of U-Boats. Now think of it. You're in the middle of the Ocean, you've just sunk a whole convoy and those two allied planes see you. What do you think they will do circle and admire the view or try to send you to kingdom come? It's not about making it difficult, it's about to make it realistic and reasonable.

I did not complain about this at all and I'm not an idiot. Of course it makes sense. I was simply commenting on how the planes left you alone in the naval academy training and now they attack you. Never once did I say it was a problem, just thought it was interesting.

Originally Posted by melnibonian

The chronometer is operational in the periscope room. You click on it and it runs, simple. It works exactly as the clock in SH3. In all other screens if you don't like to see it just move it (via drag and drop) to the top of the screen where it will be out of sight.

Considering it starts out at the top of the screen out of sight, this was pretty obvious to figure out. I just didn't realize it was only to be used in the periscope view and hence wondered how to start the chronometer.

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by cardician

Sorry, just wanted to say that I'm not trying to complain. I like GWX and SH3 is awesome. I have the utmost respect for what the GWX crew accomplished. I'm just trying to get some clarification on a few things, not to mention all the stuff I'm realizing is hidden away in the gem that is GWX (like the navmap stuff and the flag map stuff). However, if you're goin to respond, please do so with useful information. I'm not trying to start anything or cause problems. I'm just looking for some clarification and help. That being said...

No one said you're complaining or trying to create a problem. The only thing I did was to try to explain a few things. I was not trying to be clever or to tell you off. I'm always trying to help people in this forum and I'm always trying to be respectfull of other people's opinions. Obviously I don't know everything and every single piece of information I share with the community is honnest. I might post something wrong some times, but it is not intentional.

Originally Posted by cardician

The deck gun change, as I said is fine. I understand it, its more realistic. What I don't understand is why the crosshair is now pointless. You have to aim to the left of center in order for the projectile to go where you're aiming. That does not make sense as the targetting reticule would have been installed on the gun to account for the fact that its set off to the right of the barrell. I understand the bobbing and stuff affecting trajectory and distance of the shots, no argument there. Just wondering what the justification is for this. If you don't know, well then feel free not to comment as all you're doing is creating controversy where there is none.

Despite your last comment I will offer an opinion. Obviously it's just an opinion and you don't have to take it if you don't like it. I have the feeling that the reason why you're firing a bit further to the back has to do with the velocity and relative position to the target of your boat. Because you're moving faster than your target you need to compencate for this by firing a bit further to the back. Try this simple test if you like. Stop your boat and fire on a stationary target. You will see that the shell will go almost straight in and there will be no adjustment. Also don't forget they optics they were using back then was not so advanced (in terms of using a targeting computer) as the ones we're using now. But again as I said this is just an opinion.

Originally Posted by cardician

I did not complain about this at all and I'm not an idiot. Of course it makes sense. I was simply commenting on how the planes left you alone in the naval academy training and now they attack you. Never once did I say it was a problem, just thought it was interesting.

I did not say you're an idiot and I was not trying to be patronising. If I appear as one I'm really sorry as it was not intentional. The reason why planes attack you in the Naval Accademy is to prepare you for what's comming up in the real thing. A bit of advice: When you see a plane DIVE DIVE DIVE!!!! They're deadly

[Vacillator]

[/quote] Despite your last comment I will offer an opinion. Obviously it's just an opinion and you don't have to take it if you don't like it. I have the feeling that the reason why you're firing a bit further to the back has to do with the velocity and relative position to the target of your boat. Because you're moving faster than your target you need to compencate for this by firing a bit further to the back. Try this simple test if you like. Stop your boat and fire on a stationary target. You will see that the shell will go almost straight in and there will be no adjustment. Also don't forget they optics they were using back then was not so advanced (in terms of using a targeting computer) as the ones we're using now. But again as I said this is just an opinion.

I agree with your opinion (and who would argue with an Admiral?) as I've found that no lead is required if the ship and U-boat are stationary, while lead in either direction can be required depending on relative motion. Seems okay to me.

[cardician]

I must apologize then. I was never intending my initial questions to be rude or offending and thought perhaps you were responding as such. I can see how my comments would come off as criticism to the creators and fans of GWX, and people who feel they are being criticized often tend to react negatively. Text based conversations as this tend to allow one to interpret things improperly (something I seem to make mistakes with often). That is why I tried to clarify that I'm not trying to criticize as I think everything is great (although harder). Just the deck gun issue that I don't understand, and then clearly many other things that I just don't know how to use yet. Again, thank you for your input and again I apologize for being rude.

Now, as to the deck gun problem, you've hit on the issue. I was at a full stop. I'm not moving at all, I've got the gun adjusted to account for the distance of the target, I fire. Sometimes the projectile is way high or low. That's due to waves and bobbing. No problem.

However, *every* time, the projectile flies right of center compared to the targeting reticule. I'm not moving, so its not that. Happens when firing on the stationary ship too. This I do not understand at all. There is nothing to account for why the projectile flies out to the right like this and as I said, even in those days, this was clearly something that would be accounted for when aiming the reticule, so its not a realistic effect either. Now again, I'm not trying to attack anyone, and I'm not even saying this is wrong. I'm just looking for an explanation as to why it is this way for clarification. As I understand things, this would be wrong, but I'm sure I clearly don't understand something. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions as to why it is this way, however so far I don't believe anyone has hit on the answer. Since as I said I was not moving, neither was the target.

Again, I apologize for my harshness and incorrectly interpreting the tone of responses. Thanks to everyone for their help.

[melnibonian]

No worries mate. You were not rude and I did realise from the way you were writting that there was a missunderstanding. Everything is Ok. I do know that text base discussions can be tricky, so all is fine

Originally Posted by cardician

However, *every* time, the projectile flies right of center compared to the targeting reticule. I'm not moving, so its not that. Happens when firing on the stationary ship too. This I do not understand at all. There is nothing to account for why the projectile flies out to the right like this and as I said, even in those days, this was clearly something that would be accounted for when aiming the reticule, so its not a realistic effect either. Now again, I'm not trying to attack anyone, and I'm not even saying this is wrong. I'm just looking for an explanation as to why it is this way for clarification. As I understand things, this would be wrong, but I'm sure I clearly don't understand something. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions as to why it is this way, however so far I don't believe anyone has hit on the answer. Since as I said I was not moving, neither was the target.

Ok if that's what is happening then you probably have a case. I'm at work right now and I cannot check the deck gun effects but I will try to have a look at it when I go home tonight. From what I understand the way the gun is firing while you're moving is correct. Don't forget the sub's deck gun has no targeting computer. It's a simple aim and fire weapon, so the optics cannot compencate for the boat's movement. If I remember correctly the only gadget the deck gun had was a gyroscopic base and optics to help targeting and firing. With respect to the optics they just had a simple magnification lence (or similar) and nothing else. In any case I'll look into it tonight and let you know.

[cardician]

So when I got home today I finished up naval academy with the convoy training. Wouldn't you know, this time the deck gun was straight and true. Maybe it was just some sort of fluke with the deck gun training but I swear I had to aim the gun two of those horizontal lines to the left in order to hit even a stationary target where I was aiming.

Ah well. Never mind my stupidity, perhaps I was imagining it. Again, thanks for the help and once again my apologies. I have to say this is the best online community I've ever come across. Very nice and very helpful. Not to mention talented. As my other post on that radio message I received at the beginning of the war attests, GWX is unbelievably incredible. Seriously, I feel bad for anyone playing stock SH3. This game is a perfect 10 now as far as immersiveness and realism goes.

[melnibonian]

That's great news. As long as the deck gun works to your satisfaction we're all happy. Now stop thanking people in the forum and go out there and sink some ships There are loads of wonderful things to enjoy and discover in GWX

[raduz]

Originally Posted by cardician

However, what seems strange is that in order to hit the targets I have to aim the cross hairs two notches to the left. So instead of the middle line of the crossh hair (zoomed in) lining up with where you want the gun to shoot, it literally has to be left of where I'm trying to hit. What? Is that supposed to be added realism? I'm pretty sure that the gun sight would actually be installed to account for the fact that its set off to the right of the barrell so that center on the target is where the bullet goes. Why even have the center line of the cross hair if you literally have to aim to the left of it? No huge deal I guess as it can be adjusted for, but it definitely was not this way in stock SH3 and I don't understand the point of changing it.

Yes, it happens to me, too. But sometimes not. Just a stupid idea: could the wind have any impact on flying projectile? I know a cannon shell is really a heavy piece of metal, but perhaps, if the wind is strong enough, it could deviate to the left or right... Or the wind impact is not modeled at all?

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by raduz

Yes, it happens to me, too. But sometimes not. Just a stupid idea: could the wind have any impact on flying projectile? I know a cannon shell is really a heavy piece of metal, but perhaps, if the wind is strong enough, it could deviate to the left or right... Or the wind impact is not modeled at all?

Strictly speaking the wind does affect the projectile of a shell, due to the shell's rotation around its axis (it has angular momentum and thus generate torque). I don't know for sure, but I don't really think it is modeled in SH3.