Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (or hey, the devs stole my idea!)

Beery · 03-27-07, 04:38 PM

I just had a bit of a surprise in the game - the SH4 developers totally co-opted my idea for the ship recognition book flags. That was my idea, and it first appeared in RUb1.43 on August 2nd 2005 - I know because the RUb readme lists it as my mod. I guess imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, LOL. I wonder what else they've stolen from us?

Of course I'm joking. I'm not upset about it. Actually I really am flattered. It's good to know that what we do does get noticed.

Anyway, I thought this might make a nice thread, so has anyone else noticed any stuff from SH3 mods that 'accidentally' found its way into SH4?

Sailor Steve · 03-27-07, 04:41 PM

Well, no one was ever able to make it work in SH3, being hard-coded and all, but one of the biggest complaints was about having to micro-manage and baby-sit the crew, and wouldn't it be great if you could assign automatic rotating watches. They listened to that one.

CCIP · 03-27-07, 04:41 PM

All my work on ports, esp. in the Baltic, Med and Black Seas from Operations Mod has made its way directly into SHIV. Egan might recognize some of his, too :p

Myself, when I release a mod anyone is free to use it. I don't even need any credit as long as the other person doesn't take it for themselves either. In the case of the Devs though - they have every right to use what they need, as mods that don't use external copyrighted content are technically property of Ubisoft.

Egan · 03-27-07, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

All my work on ports, esp. in the Baltic, Med and Black Seas from Operations Mod has made its way directly into SHIV. Egan might recognize some of his, too :p

Lol, yeah. it was the nav map clued me in on this...

Actually, I think there may be a few other things. I want to compare the airstrike cfg to the ones you and I were doing for the ops mod and later and the vanilla sh3 one. I reckon one of the reasons that people are seeing such a silly level of air patrols is that it was one that was done for SH3 that had been slotted for Biscay patrols...I think there might be a wad of stuff in the cfg file culled from RUB and other mods. Of course, most of it is redundant now..

:rotfl:

Beery · 03-27-07, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

In the case of the Devs though - they have every right to use what they need, as mods that don't use external copyrighted content are technically property of Ubisoft.

That's right, and I don't resent them using ideas I had at all. I've also always had the attitude that anyone can use my mods - I like to get credit but that's all. But the attitude of the developers of SH4 towards unofficial mods represents a real change from games I've made mods for in the past. This is the first time that I've seen developers use mod content for a sequel. I think it's great - it shows that they value our work and it shows that meaningful communication does go both ways. It's a long way from the mid-1990s when Talonsoft threatened to sue me for adjusting the order of battle for Battleground Waterloo.

I think Jaesen might recognise some stuff from SH3 Commander in SH4 too - I hear SH4 features after-career biographies - very similar to an idea Jaesen Jones and I developed as a way for SH3 Commander to humanize the U-boat commander's career. My idea was to give the commander an entire lifetime biography from cradle to grave, and we did it for SH3 - SH4 only seems to have used the post-career bios, but it's great - we found it added a lot to the experience in SH3.

Ducimus · 03-27-07, 04:58 PM

Quote:

SH4 developers totally co-opted my idea for the ship recognition book flags

I doubt it. The thing is, that has been in every mod since. The community as a whole has been collectively using flags on rec manuals. I honestly dont think modding got too much dev attention until NYGM and GW started hitting the scenes.

But looking at SH4, they clearly noted where we spent alot of our time polishing SH3 and some of our gripes about SH3. The crew management, the periscope TDC, flags on rec manuals, and existance of lots of harbors with traffic are examples of this. None of that existed in stock SH3, was modded into it, and is now built in SH4.

Egan · 03-27-07, 05:03 PM

Well, in the case of the ops mod harbour names that CCIP and I mentioned it was definitely our work there which began life with RUB before making its way into the two other major mods. There were several place names that went in purely because I liked the place in real life whether or not it had any real naval merit.

But yes, on the whole I agree with you. At least they noticed.

Beery · 03-27-07, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

SH4 developers totally co-opted my idea for the ship recognition book flags

I doubt it. The thing is, that has been in every mod since...

Still, it was originally my idea. Wherever they got it from - whatever route it took to get from my head to Ubisoft, I was the one who did it first, and I feel pretty darned proud about that - that an idea of mine got into an officially released game from a major game developer.

As for the devs not noticing mods until NYGM and GW, the developers were talking to the SH3 Mod Team when RUb was in development (before NYGM or GW were even a twinkle in their authors' eyes, hehe). They definitely knew RUb was around. Heck, RUb was even featured in July 2005's Computer Games Magazine, so it was hardly a little-known mod anywhere, least of all among the SH3 development team.

Der Teddy Bar · 03-27-07, 05:36 PM

Berry,
A Dev team finally listens to the community and what we want in a sim and decide to implement it into the next release, in this case SHIV, and you have to go and make a post like this!

I am unsure of what you hope to achieve with such an offensive post?

I would not be surprised if we found 'your original idea' of flags on the cover of a recognition manual in some other game that has been released years ago.

Hopefully everyone will remember to thank you when something that the community wants does not make it into SHV because they made it known either through a post or a mod.

Immacolata · 03-27-07, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

LOL. I wonder what else they've stolen from us?

I'm not upset about it. Actually I really am flattered. It's good to know that what we do does get noticed.

If you're really flattered you might consider using a different word than "stolen". That is so.. confrontational

Anyways I as player and user of mods are happy on my own as well as on the behalf of those who enjoy seeing their work in this new product. I hope this means that modding for SHIV will be even more enjoyed by makers, users and supported by devs.

Kpt. Lehmann · 03-27-07, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Berry,
A Dev team finally listens to the community and what we want in a sim and decide to implement it into the next release, in this case SHIV, and you have to go and make a post like this!

I am unsure of what you hope to achieve with such an offensive post?

I would not be surprised if we found 'your original idea' of flags on the cover of a recognition manual in some other game that has been released years ago.

Hopefully everyone will remember to thank you when something that the community wants does not make it into SHV because they made it known either through a post or a mod.

I agree. Salute DTB.

Onkel Neal · 03-27-07, 05:54 PM

Before any tempers are frayed with the healthy competitiveness

I think Beery was using the word "stolen" in the lighter sense. The devs were greatly impressed with the imaginitive work done by the community. All of you had great ideas that contributed to the success of post-release SH4.

cheers
Neal

Beery · 03-27-07, 06:06 PM

Guys, it was a joke. How could Ubisoft have stolen what was theirs to begin with. Do us all a favour: take a deep breath, look at the original post again and read ALL of it - especially the bit that says:

"I'm not upset about it. Actually I really am flattered. It's good to know that what we do does get noticed."

Don't just read the 'stealing' part, and try not to put the worst spin possible on it.

Hehe, next time I have to remember to use smiley faces so people know I have my tongue firmly in cheek.

Darn my dry British sense of humour.

Onkel Neal · 03-27-07, 06:10 PM

Now, if we can just mod tabs for the different classes of ships, and make the page stay on the last page viewed... that would

gouldjg · 03-27-07, 06:29 PM

compete compete Compete I want healthy competition as it gets bigger and better mods out.

DTB the KPT slept with your wife

KPT, Beery said your wife sucked in bed

Beery, the other two question your historical knowledge and presume your so ugly, you dont have a wife.

On a serious not so winding up sense,

Does anyone have any contact with the devs whom may share the occasional formular/secret.

I know DTB got hold of some useful info on SH3 and hope he can do it again,

KPT, will probably take a break, the poor sod

Beery, IMHO, is usually the best person to spur modders in a optimistic way.

I think the devs have given us a graphical brilliant game. It is up to all of our combined efforts to turn this into a cult type following as with the last one. That way, we will eventually get a twin theatre version.

Lets kick the cloak and daggers out of the door

p.s. hope you all see the twisted sad humour and don't take any offense

03-27-07, 04:38 PM	#1
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (or hey, the devs stole my idea!) I just had a bit of a surprise in the game - the SH4 developers totally co-opted my idea for the ship recognition book flags. That was my idea, and it first appeared in RUb1.43 on August 2nd 2005 - I know because the RUb readme lists it as my mod. I guess imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, LOL. I wonder what else they've stolen from us? Of course I'm joking. I'm not upset about it. Actually I really am flattered. It's good to know that what we do does get noticed. Anyway, I thought this might make a nice thread, so has anyone else noticed any stuff from SH3 mods that 'accidentally' found its way into SH4? __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen. Last edited by Beery; 03-28-07 at 08:22 AM.

03-27-07, 04:41 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Well, no one was ever able to make it work in SH3, being hard-coded and all, but one of the biggest complaints was about having to micro-manage and baby-sit the crew, and wouldn't it be great if you could assign automatic rotating watches. They listened to that one. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-27-07, 04:41 PM	#3
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	All my work on ports, esp. in the Baltic, Med and Black Seas from Operations Mod has made its way directly into SHIV. Egan might recognize some of his, too :p Myself, when I release a mod anyone is free to use it. I don't even need any credit as long as the other person doesn't take it for themselves either. In the case of the Devs though - they have every right to use what they need, as mods that don't use external copyrighted content are technically property of Ubisoft. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-27-07, 06:06 PM	#13
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Guys, it was a joke. How could Ubisoft have stolen what was theirs to begin with. Do us all a favour: take a deep breath, look at the original post again and read ALL of it - especially the bit that says: "I'm not upset about it. Actually I really am flattered. It's good to know that what we do does get noticed." Don't just read the 'stealing' part, and try not to put the worst spin possible on it. Hehe, next time I have to remember to use smiley faces so people know I have my tongue firmly in cheek. Darn my dry British sense of humour. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

03-27-07, 05:03 PM	#7
Egan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Well, in the case of the ops mod harbour names that CCIP and I mentioned it was definitely our work there which began life with RUB before making its way into the two other major mods. There were several place names that went in purely because I liked the place in real life whether or not it had any real naval merit. But yes, on the whole I agree with you. At least they noticed.

03-27-07, 05:36 PM	#9
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Berry, A Dev team finally listens to the community and what we want in a sim and decide to implement it into the next release, in this case SHIV, and you have to go and make a post like this! I am unsure of what you hope to achieve with such an offensive post? I would not be surprised if we found 'your original idea' of flags on the cover of a recognition manual in some other game that has been released years ago. Hopefully everyone will remember to thank you when something that the community wants does not make it into SHV because they made it known either through a post or a mod.

03-27-07, 05:54 PM	#12
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Before any tempers are frayed with the healthy competitiveness I think Beery was using the word "stolen" in the lighter sense. The devs were greatly impressed with the imaginitive work done by the community. All of you had great ideas that contributed to the success of post-release SH4. cheers Neal

03-27-07, 06:10 PM	#14
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Now, if we can just mod tabs for the different classes of ships, and make the page stay on the last page viewed... that would

03-27-07, 06:29 PM	#15
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	compete compete Compete I want healthy competition as it gets bigger and better mods out. DTB the KPT slept with your wife KPT, Beery said your wife sucked in bed Beery, the other two question your historical knowledge and presume your so ugly, you dont have a wife. On a serious not so winding up sense, Does anyone have any contact with the devs whom may share the occasional formular/secret. I know DTB got hold of some useful info on SH3 and hope he can do it again, KPT, will probably take a break, the poor sod Beery, IMHO, is usually the best person to spur modders in a optimistic way. I think the devs have given us a graphical brilliant game. It is up to all of our combined efforts to turn this into a cult type following as with the last one. That way, we will eventually get a twin theatre version. Lets kick the cloak and daggers out of the door p.s. hope you all see the twisted sad humour and don't take any offense