How much time did U-boats spend in port?

Zero Niner · 03-26-07, 11:19 PM

Stock SH3 iirc gives about a week - ten days in port in between patrols. More days are added if you returned from the last patrol damaged, or had purchased upgrades.

Historically, is there an average time that U-boats spent in port before going on the next patrol?

Even if a sub returns undamaged, IRL there would be minor repairs to equipment, upgrades, refits, overhauls, etc. Plus if a sub got a new kaleun or substantial new crew there would need be a familiarisation/training sortie, etc.

I want to use SH3C to simulate a realistic time spent in port between patrols. Maybe once in 5 patrols I'll double that time to simulate major repairs/refit, etc, or the flotilla giving the crew of a successful sub some long leave.

Can anyone help?

TarJak · 03-27-07, 03:22 AM

Check out this extract from this document: http://www.informs-cs.org/wsc03papers/123.pdf

Sound like there just isn't much data around on this and the variables were significant enough to make it difficult to do anything but guesstimate.

"Perhaps the biggest unknown factor regarding U-Boat
activity concerned the time spent in port, and this remains
the biggest unknown regarding the link between the Bay of
Biscay simulation and the real-world operation. There was
simply not enough data available to support anything but
an educated, reasoned guess. In the simulation, U-Boats
time in port is given as a random variable between 25-40
days, inclusive. This is derived from (Morse and Kimball
1998) which states that the average time a U-Boat would
spend “about 30 days” in a port operating under its capacity
(no strict queuing argument is attached to the word capacity
in this instance). However, from other sources,
most notably (McCue 1990), the French ports were often
choked beyond their ability to service all the boats at any
given time, especially toward the end of the war when
German resources became scarce."

Zero Niner · 03-27-07, 04:57 AM

Thanks.
I guess for a "realistic" simulation, one should estimate about 3 weeks in port, plus extra for upgrades & major repairs (ie coming home damaged from the last patrol)?
What would I do without SH3C? Thank you Jscones!

danurve · 03-27-07, 09:05 AM

Here's a monkey wrench, lets say your boat docks at a resupply ship like I just did.
Basicaly your there for fuel and eels, no major repairs or upgrades needed not to mention theres things you can't do to your boat if your not in home port. Given an ease of adjustment with SH3Commander I'm thinking 2 weeks max. What do you all think?
Must give the crew a little time to drink up before the next patrol after all

The supply ship being so close to Cadiz I'm thinking of sneeking into the Med. But it's still early `40 how much could be going on there.

abel29a · 03-27-07, 09:26 AM

At a supply ship I try to use Commander to let only one day pass, as the u-boats would not dilly about there. These supply ships (or milch cows for that matter) were in neutral harbours and hostile waters - ergo: Get in, load torpedoes - get out. To bad there is no way around getting repaired if you dock at one - therefore I never go to a supply point if at all damaged.

danurve · 03-27-07, 09:50 AM

I agree for the most part, I'd also like to stick with the steamers for now.
One day seems a bit short though, I mean it's a supply ship not a cow. I thought to use Thalia untill the Bay of Biscay opens a few ports. Or perhaps even transfer to a med base after that. Anyhow yes resupply over does it. It would be super cool to limit what a resupply could do. Such as maybe 60% on fuel - torps.

03-26-07, 11:19 PM	#1
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	How much time did U-boats spend in port? Stock SH3 iirc gives about a week - ten days in port in between patrols. More days are added if you returned from the last patrol damaged, or had purchased upgrades. Historically, is there an average time that U-boats spent in port before going on the next patrol? Even if a sub returns undamaged, IRL there would be minor repairs to equipment, upgrades, refits, overhauls, etc. Plus if a sub got a new kaleun or substantial new crew there would need be a familiarisation/training sortie, etc. I want to use SH3C to simulate a realistic time spent in port between patrols. Maybe once in 5 patrols I'll double that time to simulate major repairs/refit, etc, or the flotilla giving the crew of a successful sub some long leave. Can anyone help?

03-27-07, 09:05 AM	#4
danurve The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 1,481 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 3	Here's a monkey wrench, lets say your boat docks at a resupply ship like I just did. Basicaly your there for fuel and eels, no major repairs or upgrades needed not to mention theres things you can't do to your boat if your not in home port. Given an ease of adjustment with SH3Commander I'm thinking 2 weeks max. What do you all think? Must give the crew a little time to drink up before the next patrol after all The supply ship being so close to Cadiz I'm thinking of sneeking into the Med. But it's still early `40 how much could be going on there. __________________

03-27-07, 09:26 AM	#5
abel29a Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 101 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	At a supply ship I try to use Commander to let only one day pass, as the u-boats would not dilly about there. These supply ships (or milch cows for that matter) were in neutral harbours and hostile waters - ergo: Get in, load torpedoes - get out. To bad there is no way around getting repaired if you dock at one - therefore I never go to a supply point if at all damaged. __________________ "Sieben Tankern schlug die letze Stund, die U-Falle sank träger. Zwei Frachter liegen mit auf Grund, Versenkt vom Paukenschläger." - Reinhard Hardegen, U-123 GWX 1.03 and loving it....

03-27-07, 09:50 AM	#6
danurve The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 1,481 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 3	I agree for the most part, I'd also like to stick with the steamers for now. One day seems a bit short though, I mean it's a supply ship not a cow. I thought to use Thalia untill the Bay of Biscay opens a few ports. Or perhaps even transfer to a med base after that. Anyhow yes resupply over does it. It would be super cool to limit what a resupply could do. Such as maybe 60% on fuel - torps. __________________

03-27-07, 03:22 AM	#2
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Check out this extract from this document: http://www.informs-cs.org/wsc03papers/123.pdf Sound like there just isn't much data around on this and the variables were significant enough to make it difficult to do anything but guesstimate. "Perhaps the biggest unknown factor regarding U-Boat activity concerned the time spent in port, and this remains the biggest unknown regarding the link between the Bay of Biscay simulation and the real-world operation. There was simply not enough data available to support anything but an educated, reasoned guess. In the simulation, U-Boats time in port is given as a random variable between 25-40 days, inclusive. This is derived from (Morse and Kimball 1998) which states that the average time a U-Boat would spend “about 30 days” in a port operating under its capacity (no strict queuing argument is attached to the word capacity in this instance). However, from other sources, most notably (McCue 1990), the French ports were often choked beyond their ability to service all the boats at any given time, especially toward the end of the war when German resources became scarce."

03-27-07, 04:57 AM	#3
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Thanks. I guess for a "realistic" simulation, one should estimate about 3 weeks in port, plus extra for upgrades & major repairs (ie coming home damaged from the last patrol)? What would I do without SH3C? Thank you Jscones!