Russian AEW?

[LoBlo]

Has anyone else noticed that there's no Russian version of the E2-Hawkeye ingame? Don't tell me that the Russian SAG tatics didn't use AEW aircraft... that would seem really reckless.

Does anyone know the RL AEW aircraft that the Russia Navy used, or it they even had one?

[ASWnut101]

No, they haven't had one at all. They don't have a carrier force like ours.

[PeriscopeDepth]

IIRC, they used AEW helicopters.

PD

[sonar732]

This was the closest one that I found for a Naval AEW to be utilized on Russian carriers.

An-71 Madcap

Three aircraft were built before the An-71 was cancelled in favor of the twin-turboprop Yak-44 [which was in turn cancelled in 1993].

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Actually, the Madcap was supposed to be land based. Apparently, the Mainstay was more for the PVO to patrol its northern borders (its relative lack of tracking ability won't be a big problem then). The Madcap was supposed to be for the VVS. Given their small size, I'm guessing they planned to produce a lot of them.

They tried toying around with the idea of making it sea-based for awhile, but decided that there was too much modification work to do and decided to go with a fresh plane called Yak-44 (a large E-2 lookalike). They were about to make a prototype and then the Soviet Union collapsed. Damn it...

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Don't tell me that the Russian SAG tatics didn't use AEW aircraft... that would seem really reckless.

Does anyone know the RL AEW aircraft that the Russia Navy used, or it they even had one?

The Soviets mostly relied upon land-based aircraft for supporting it's naval forces. They really hadn't tried to develop carrier based aviation until almost the fall of the Soviet Union. From a naval perspective, the Soviets were concerned with defending their coasts from attacks by American carrier battle groups and cruise missile carrying submarines, as well as preventing American amphibious ready groups from reaching striking distance. As a result, they really didn't expect their naval forces to be outside the reach of land-based aviation.

The Moscow and Kiev classes were helicopter carriers. They were more like European aircraft carriers, which is to say they were essentially like US LHDs, except they had more emphasis on the ASW role. Their fighters really didn't stand much of a chance against NATO aviation.

The Kuznetsov, in this sense should be looked at as an experimental design. They were definitely moving more in the direction of building US-style supercarriers, but ultimately it was a goal that was never realized.

[LoBlo]

That makes sense. Any strike group without a AEW system in place is going to be at a supreme disadvantage... especially if there main adversary tatics are based on carrier strikes. Does anyone know what the Russian land based AEW was then? I'm assuming somethings been developed that's equivalent to AWACs.

[ASWnut101]

I think it was a Il-76 that was modified to carry a large radome on its "back."

[PeriscopeDepth]

Seaborne, they certainly DID have AEW as I mentioned before:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/ka-31.htm

Land based AEW:
Older, all phased out I believe - http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sia/tu-126.htm
Current - http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/a-50.htm

PD

[PeriscopeDepth]

And a picture, rotary AEW aircraft are weird lookin...

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/.../day_05_27.jpg

[ASWnut101]

I was thinking Airplanes...

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

And a picture, rotary AEW aircraft are weird lookin...

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/.../day_05_27.jpg

Weird setup no doubt. No has to wonder how its performance would stand up to an full radar-domed airplane. No doubt lack of altitude is a disadvantage. Both raw energy output to power the radar as well as onboard data processing power would be worsened as well.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

The Soviets mostly relied upon land-based aircraft for supporting it's naval forces. They really hadn't tried to develop carrier based aviation until almost the fall of the Soviet Union. From a naval perspective, the Soviets were concerned with defending their coasts from attacks by American carrier battle groups and cruise missile carrying submarines, as well as preventing American amphibious ready groups from reaching striking distance. As a result, they really didn't expect their naval forces to be outside the reach of land-based aviation.

Actually, there were some attempts under in Grechko's era (late 60s, early 70s) to build an aircraft carrier (Project OREL and the like). Unfortunately for the Russian Navy, it is the buttend of the 5 Soviet services, so when Ustinov took over, he was pretty much against any conventional carrier.

According to the Japanese Wiki, it might have been because Ustinov thought they were "Imperialist offensive weapons" as per Stalin's opinon! Interesting theory, but as good as any because it couldn't have been based on logical thought. No one that saw Forger could seriously think it is any good as a carrier aircraft even if one assumes it worked!

Some of his wonderful logic were like this: The Navy proposes a 65000 ton carrier (twice downsized from Orel) with 2 steam catapults for 52 conventional aircraft. Ustinov screams and demands a smaller carrier using VTOL aircraft. So they cut 10000 tons, one catapult, and 6 aircraft off the new design. Ustinov screams no because combat coefficient dropped by 30%... Does he expect no loss from his size reduction proposals? Sigh...

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Some of his wonderful logic were like this: The Navy proposes a 65000 ton carrier (twice downsized from Orel) with 2 steam catapults for 52 conventional aircraft. Ustinov screams and demands a smaller carrier using VTOL aircraft. So they cut 10000 tons, one catapult, and 6 aircraft off the new design. Ustinov screams no because combat coefficient dropped by 30%... Does he expect no loss from his size reduction proposals? Sigh...

HA! It sounds like LCS with airplanes!

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Weird setup no doubt. No has to wonder how its performance would stand up to an full radar-domed airplane. No doubt lack of altitude is a disadvantage. Both raw energy output to power the radar as well as onboard data processing power would be worsened as well.

No details about the Sea King AEW, but the Ka-31 definitely is no comparison. Its estimated range against a fighter is only 100-150km. It can track 40 targets by itself. If it has to datalink (say to a ship's more powerful computers), that number drops to 20.