New Virginia SSNs

[loynokid]

What does everybody think of the new Virginia class attack subs. They seem to be better than the seawolf in design terms, but im not sure if i like the VLS tubes since they are not reloadable. And does anyone know the level of quieting on these subs? :hmm:

[ASWnut101]

I like the Seawolf better. 8 tubes, 50 weapons (or 100 mines). The quietiest nuclear sub in the world. Very fast. Very advanced Sonar.


The Seawolf is quieter than the Virginia. Although the Virginia has the firepower boost of VLS tubes, It is said to be designed for littoral operations and SOF insertions, not for killing the super-quiet SSK's.

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

I like the Seawolf better. 8 tubes, 50 weapons (or 100 mines). The quietiest nuclear sub in the world. Very fast. Very advanced Sonar.


The Seawolf is quieter than the Virginia. Although the Virginia has the firepower boost of VLS tubes, It is said to be designed for littoral operations and SOF insertions, not for killing the super-quiet SSK's.

Very true. and thanks for the reply. this is my first thread ever.

[CCIP]

Can you expand a little on 'better design'?

I'm not sure if I follow; I think they're different designs. Certainly I've always been more impressed by Seawolf's reported quieting and performance than Virginia's.

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Can you expand a little on 'better design'?

I'm not sure if I follow; I think they're different designs. Certainly I've always been more impressed by Seawolf's reported quieting and performance than Virginia's.

Ok, im basing this design thing off of what the navy says. They say that the virginia can acheive seawolf level quieting and from my opinion the new fly by wire sort of thing and the new control center or "control room" design has been over all improved. Also it is newer so i am thinking that the sonar technology is better in this class of sub too.

[ASWnut101]

"what the navy says" is a gross understatement of the boat's real capabilities.


EDIT: Here's some Virginia pics (first) and Seawolf pics (second)

VA concept:




VA 3D drawings:




Seawolf:

[Bort]

I vote Virginia, because it is better suited to today's missions than the monster Seawolf. Seawolf is in alot of ways the ultimate SSN, but in even more ways it is a dinosaur, built for a mission that ceased to exist before it ever touched the water. I also say it's time for the administration and congress to stop goofing around with this one or two boats a year building plan and crank up production of the Virginas to replace the old 688's and rebuild the Sub force to a reasonable number.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Probably, when all is considered, the Seawolf has the greater combat coefficients, especially if you make small upgrades to keep the electronic equipment current every now and then. The Virginia was supposed to be much cheaper, but apparently that hasn't happened (it is a little cheaper I think, but not much). In that case, if I were in power, I might as well go for Capability Seawolves and tell them to rework the NSSN into something that really meets its original goal of being cheaper...

To make sure that they do that, I'd threaten them by saying that if they don't make a design that's really smaller and cheaper, I'd go for AIP-diesel subs. That OUGHTA force them to do a good job..

[JSLTIGER]

I gotta go Seawolf on this one...

[geetrue]

I would take either one, but I want to take her for a spin first.

The Virginia is the first of a new class of attack submarine.

Home port is Groton, Conn my son was born in New London.
I and my family spent three years in Navy housing in Groton.
The Virginia is the best of the best ...


USS Virginia SSN-774
Length 377’
Beam 34’
Displacement 7,835 tons
4 21” tubes
12 vertical tubes
Tomahawk cruise missiles
Mk 48 advanced torpedo’s
Mk 60 captor mines advanced mobile mines
Unmanned Underwater Vehicle’s
132 officer’s and men


Artist rendition of what she might look like under water

[Lurchi]

What always interested me while comparing the Seawolf with the Virginia:

Does anyone know why they went back to the armament concept of the 688(I), 4 Torpedo Tubes + VLS? Costs?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Lurchi

What always interested me while comparing the Seawolf with the Virginia:

Does anyone know why they went back to the armament concept of the 688(I), 4 Torpedo Tubes + VLS? Costs?

This is an increase in available loaded ordnance at any given time. You can have anti-surface/anti-ship missiles loaded and ready to use while keeping your 533 mm tubes reserved for ADCAPs. It all comes down to the new requirements for military platforms engaging multiple targets simultaneously; no different than the F22.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

To make sure that they do that, I'd threaten them by saying that if they don't make a design that's really smaller and cheaper, I'd go for AIP-diesel subs. That OUGHTA force them to do a good job..

AIP, while very quiet, is still in it's infancy and is not suitable for the long-range projection requirements of the US Navy. Any such threat would, accordingly, be empty.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

AIP, while very quiet, is still in it's infancy and is not suitable for the long-range projection requirements of the US Navy. Any such threat would, accordingly, be empty.

Would it? Right now, many are arguing for a mix of AIPs and nukes for the future sub force as more suitable for the increased littoral work subs have to do. The Submarine Mafia has historically fought against this like mad, but we can probably use this against them.

Remember, the civilians set the requirements, not the Navy. If we force them to strict budgetary limits (per boat) and HOLD THEM TO IT, they'd be forced to either go to AIP subs or build economical SSNs like they promised to build with sodding Virginia back when it was called Centurion.

Either is fine by me, but the United States can only afford so much cost-bloated equipment, no matter how qualitatively superior they may be (see also: F-22). And Virginia was supposed to be the JSF to the Seawolf's F-22.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Would it? Right now, many are arguing for a mix of AIPs and nukes for the future sub force as more suitable for the increased littoral work subs have to do. The Submarine Mafia has historically fought against this like mad, but we can probably use this against them.

Remember, the civilians set the requirements, not the Navy. If we force them to strict budgetary limits (per boat) and HOLD THEM TO IT, they'd be forced to either go to AIP subs or build economical SSNs like they promised to build with sodding Virginia back when it was called Centurion.

Either is fine by me, but the United States can only afford so much cost-bloated equipment, no matter how qualitatively superior they may be (see also: F-22). And Virginia was supposed to be the JSF to the Seawolf's F-22.

Wonderful, but AIPs still do not meet the requirements for global force projection. Until the technology develops fully, you won't see AIPs in the service of the USN. Even a simplified view of USN history tells you that the navy has never produced two competitive forms of propulsion at the same time. The so-called 'submarine mafia' has seen to that.

Regarding comparison with the F22: I know. I made that comparison several posts ago.