REL- Additional Visual nodes for GWX

Ducimus · 01-29-07, 12:37 AM

I hereby proclaim this thread dead.

Raise it again, and your a thread necro!

Letum · 01-29-07, 01:39 AM

Could you please briefly answer the following:

1) How does this effect a typical convoy attack in GWX?
2) How does this effect a typical night time convoy attack in GWX?
3) How does this effect a typical aircraft evasion GWX?
3) How does this effect a typical PT boat evasion GWX?
4) How does this effect a typical lone merchant attack GWX?
5) Have all (non-warship) units in GWX been changed?
6) Is it possible to give BBs better visuals to reflect the huge binoculars and number of spotters they had?
7) Is it possible to give all units poorer visibility in the early war years?

Thankyou

Ducimus · 01-29-07, 02:00 AM

thread is dead

Woof1701 · 01-29-07, 04:47 AM

This sounds like a great addition with a lot of potential. Thanks a lot for the work you've done!!

oRGy · 01-29-07, 09:49 AM

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this. The only thing is that the aircraft spotting seems very high compared to reality; visually spotting a sub across miles of sea was hard, but more importantly, I don't see how you could physically see further than 30km even in perfect conditions...

Otherwise,

Hope the GWX team take note of this.

GT182 · 01-29-07, 09:55 AM

I asked this in the post about changing the motorcycle on your departure dock. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104635

I could never understand why there isn't anything on any docks except where you depart from. Just having static equipment would be nice. As long as nothing moves, it shouldn't cause problems with frame rates I'd think.

Duc, would this be possible with you mod too?

Kpt. Lehmann · 01-29-07, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oRGy

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this. The only thing is that the aircraft spotting seems very high compared to reality; visually spotting a sub across miles of sea was hard, but more importantly, I don't see how you could physically see further than 30km even in perfect conditions...

Otherwise,

Hope the GWX team take note of this.

The ranges that we've posted and sometimes discuss are not a numbers that we simply pulled out of our hats.

Regarding aircraft spotting U-boats, I've done deep research into this area/field personally. Very often you could see the wake LONG before aircraft radar or any on-board mark-1 eyeballs picked up the actual sub itself sub.

Then, there is the whole thing concerning oil slicks... not represented in SH3.

The definitive and primary source of information concerning aircraft vs. U-boats in GWX was "Dark Sky, Deep Water" by Norman Franks.

Something else that you must understand regarding the visual sensors in GWX as they stand in general. They yield a POTENTIAL (not a certainty) of seeing a reasonable distance based on first hand accounts and modern range estimations from a known point to another known point.

You can indeed see 30 km on a clear day. (In GWX we are limited to 16km for obvious reasons.)

This POTENTIAL spotting is influenced by several atmospheric variables.

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

Payoff · 01-29-07, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

I always assumed the Germans had the finest optics in WWII. I guess you learn something new every day.

Sailor Steve · 01-29-07, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payoff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

I always assumed the Germans had the finest optics in WWII. I guess you learn something new every day.

German optics were among the finest. When actually spotting something, binoculars are binoculars, and eyeballs are eyeballs. Submarines usually spotted bigger ships before the subs were spotted, because the targets were bigger. However, usually isn't always, and it's a mistake to stay surfaced after you've spotted them, because sooner or later they will see you.

As far as shooting goes, a single-barreled gunsight mounted on a cannon will always loose to a nine-or-fifteen-foot stereoscopic rangefinder.

Ducimus · 01-29-07, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oRGy

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this.

Just to reiterate, the core of this , is the AI_sensor file with the additional visual nodes. I did not create this. It came from NYGM TW 2.0. How they created it ive no idea. But with the "mod war" well and over, i have no qualms about using idea's they've had that i think are good. Personnaly i think the AI_visual with additional nodes is an elegant solution to various problems. The trick is setting the sensor's and enviormental variables right.

Mush Martin · 01-29-07, 12:19 PM

That is totally wicked I cant wait. MM

Ducimus · 01-29-07, 12:45 PM

Thread is dead.

New one here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

01-29-07, 01:41 PM

AirB is currentlly unused? :hmm:

Could that be cause it stands for Balloons? :rotfl:

Well, this just helps me to no end!!

Being that the K-Ships flew slower, stayed with the Convoy,
and had a very good 360 degree, stable platform to observe from
I always felt I needed to AI them a bit differently then normal
Aircraft.

Ducimus · 01-29-07, 02:22 PM

Just FYI i found a bug with the SE_Visual sensor. Either the that node has a hard limitation on it, or i have the tweak file for that sensor messed up. All the other sensors work fine, but SE_Visual will not adjust itself beyond 10,000 meters.

I'll have an updated file as soon as i get time to fix it. If it's not a tweak file problem then ill use the SE_Visual for fishing boats and the F_Visual for torpedo boats and such.

EDIT:
Ok AI_Visual, M_visual, F_visual, and AirS_Visual all work correctly.
The fly in the ointment is SE_Visual. For whatever reason its geometry will not alter in game (fixed 10,000 meter max distance), even though it reads fine in the tweak file.

Options that i can see:

1.) Drop the SE_Visual and do not use it.

2.) Move the SE_visual with its apparent fixed range of 10,000 meters to coastal vessels like fishingboats, trawlers, tugboats and the like. and use the F_Visual for elco's, and other fast attack type ships.

3.) Leave them as is and re-examine the tweak file for errors with this node.

If anyones intrested in this mod, let me know how you think this should be handled.

Ducimus · 01-30-07, 04:22 AM

Ive rereleased the file after going back over it. (D/L file again in orignal post.) To reiterate, i encountered a problem with the SE_Visual being fixed at 10,000 meters. I noticed this problem when leaving port when i know i had set it to be 16K.

Don't you test this crap ? Yup. Tested all the visual nodes except that one.. Go figure.

Anyway I decided that just because the file has extra nodes, doesnt mean i have to use them all. So what i decided on was this:

All aircraft use AirS_visual
All merchant and coastal traffic use M_visual
All warships use AI_visual as before
Small fast attack torepdo boats use F_visual

From testing so far im quite happy with these settings. With M_visual at 14,000 meters i was visually detected by a mercant at about 7200 meters in a 7kt wind during daylight, and i was partially bows on to him, with the merchant being at my 10'oclock or bearing 335-340ish. Im sure had i given him my broadsides he would have detected me much earlier.

This should give you a little bit more varation since merchants and warships no longer have the same visual sensor.

01-29-07, 12:37 AM	#1
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	REL- Additional Visual nodes for GWX I hereby proclaim this thread dead. Raise it again, and your a thread necro! Last edited by Ducimus; 03-06-07 at 02:28 PM.

01-29-07, 01:39 AM	#2
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Could you please briefly answer the following: 1) How does this effect a typical convoy attack in GWX? 2) How does this effect a typical night time convoy attack in GWX? 3) How does this effect a typical aircraft evasion GWX? 3) How does this effect a typical PT boat evasion GWX? 4) How does this effect a typical lone merchant attack GWX? 5) Have all (non-warship) units in GWX been changed? 6) Is it possible to give BBs better visuals to reflect the huge binoculars and number of spotters they had? 7) Is it possible to give all units poorer visibility in the early war years? Thankyou __________________

01-29-07, 02:00 AM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	thread is dead Last edited by Ducimus; 03-06-07 at 02:28 PM.

01-29-07, 09:49 AM	#5
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this. The only thing is that the aircraft spotting seems very high compared to reality; visually spotting a sub across miles of sea was hard, but more importantly, I don't see how you could physically see further than 30km even in perfect conditions... Otherwise, Hope the GWX team take note of this. __________________

01-29-07, 09:55 AM	#6
GT182 Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Castle of Delaware Posts: 3,231 Downloads: 658 Uploads: 0	I asked this in the post about changing the motorcycle on your departure dock. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104635 I could never understand why there isn't anything on any docks except where you depart from. Just having static equipment would be nice. As long as nothing moves, it shouldn't cause problems with frame rates I'd think. Duc, would this be possible with you mod too? __________________ Gary No Borders, No Language, No Culture =s No Country I'm a Deplorable, and proud of it.

01-29-07, 04:47 AM	#4
Woof1701 Commodore Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Munich, Germany, Home of U-96 Posts: 633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	This sounds like a great addition with a lot of potential. Thanks a lot for the work you've done!!

01-29-07, 12:19 PM	#11
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Wow thats Awesome That is totally wicked I cant wait. MM __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

01-29-07, 12:45 PM	#12
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Thread is dead. New one here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956 Last edited by Ducimus; 03-06-07 at 02:50 PM.

01-29-07, 01:41 PM	#13
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	AirB is currentlly unused? :hmm: Could that be cause it stands for Balloons? :rotfl: Well, this just helps me to no end!! Being that the K-Ships flew slower, stayed with the Convoy, and had a very good 360 degree, stable platform to observe from I always felt I needed to AI them a bit differently then normal Aircraft.

01-29-07, 02:22 PM	#14
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Just FYI i found a bug with the SE_Visual sensor. Either the that node has a hard limitation on it, or i have the tweak file for that sensor messed up. All the other sensors work fine, but SE_Visual will not adjust itself beyond 10,000 meters. I'll have an updated file as soon as i get time to fix it. If it's not a tweak file problem then ill use the SE_Visual for fishing boats and the F_Visual for torpedo boats and such. EDIT: Ok AI_Visual, M_visual, F_visual, and AirS_Visual all work correctly. The fly in the ointment is SE_Visual. For whatever reason its geometry will not alter in game (fixed 10,000 meter max distance), even though it reads fine in the tweak file. Options that i can see: 1.) Drop the SE_Visual and do not use it. 2.) Move the SE_visual with its apparent fixed range of 10,000 meters to coastal vessels like fishingboats, trawlers, tugboats and the like. and use the F_Visual for elco's, and other fast attack type ships. 3.) Leave them as is and re-examine the tweak file for errors with this node. If anyones intrested in this mod, let me know how you think this should be handled. Last edited by Ducimus; 01-30-07 at 04:13 AM.

01-30-07, 04:22 AM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Ive rereleased the file after going back over it. (D/L file again in orignal post.) To reiterate, i encountered a problem with the SE_Visual being fixed at 10,000 meters. I noticed this problem when leaving port when i know i had set it to be 16K. Don't you test this crap ? Yup. Tested all the visual nodes except that one.. Go figure. Anyway I decided that just because the file has extra nodes, doesnt mean i have to use them all. So what i decided on was this: All aircraft use AirS_visual All merchant and coastal traffic use M_visual All warships use AI_visual as before Small fast attack torepdo boats use F_visual From testing so far im quite happy with these settings. With M_visual at 14,000 meters i was visually detected by a mercant at about 7200 meters in a 7kt wind during daylight, and i was partially bows on to him, with the merchant being at my 10'oclock or bearing 335-340ish. Im sure had i given him my broadsides he would have detected me much earlier. This should give you a little bit more varation since merchants and warships no longer have the same visual sensor.