Muslim Feminism

[Officerpuppy]

Sounds impossible?
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/shadya/film.html

Nice to see muslim youth trying to advance in things traditionally considered impossible.

[Letum]

"Christian" and "femanine" used to go together as badly as "muslim" and "femanine" do these days.

Because most organised religions are based on texts that do not change, religions change very slowly compared to society and culture. That siad, they do change and evolve to suit the world they are in, given time.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

"Christian" and "femanine" used to go together as badly as "muslim" and "femanine" do these days.

Yes but based on what obligatory commands from the bible? Do not confuse religious obligation with changing cultural and historical norms, as you shall soon see....

Because most organised religions are based on texts that do not change, religions change very slowly compared to society and culture. That siad, they do change and evolve to suit the world they are in, given time.

No. Islam doesn't. Neither does Judaism. Both have a common code of religious obligations, some claimed divine in origin, which can never be retracted, some decreed by religious scholars with varying degrees of obligation.

Nothing can ever retract Allah's words, as conveyed by Mohamed, as in the following example:

YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
- Qur'an 4:34.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Yes but based on what obligatory commands from the bible?

I don't know of any "Obligatory commands", but it's very easy to find bible quotes that attack feminism. ((1 Corinthians 11:3-10) is a nice example, but far from the only one).
This is probably a result of the patriarchal societies in which the Christian bible was written in.
Female preachers are forbidden by several texts in the bible. There have been female, christian preachers for a long time now. This is a good example of religion changing to suit society and culture. Even when the change directly contradicts the religious texts.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

No. Islam doesn't. Neither does Judaism. Both have a common code of religious obligations, some claimed divine in origin, which can never be retracted, some decreed by religious scholars with varying degrees of obligation.

Bunkum!
Google link
Judaism has changed, branched off in to other religions and adapted to cultures and societies like any other religion. Granted, it has been less progressive than some other religions. What about the haskalah? Now thats a perfect example of judaism adapting to society/culture.

Islam has also been changing since it was founded. If you want evidence of this then look no further than the first post in this topic!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

I don't know of any "Obligatory commands", but it's very easy to find bible quotes that attack feminism. ((1 Corinthians 11:3-10) is a nice example, but far from the only one).
This is probably a result of the patriarchal societies in which the Christian bible was written in.
Female preachers are forbidden by several texts in the bible. There have been female, christian preachers for a long time now. This is a good example of religion changing to suit society and culture. Even when the change directly contradicts the religious texts.

Thank you for that correction. I was not aware how engrained in the new testament such concepts were. Actually there's some similarity in concept between those verses in Corinthians and Quran 4:34.

Bunkum!
Google link
Judaism has changed, branched off in to other religions and adapted to cultures and societies like any other religion. Granted, it has been less progressive than some other religions. What about the haskalah? Now thats a perfect example of judaism adapting to society/culture.

But that is not Judaism. That is Jews neglecting Judaism to suit their fancy.

Islam has also been changing since it was founded. If you want evidence of this then look no further than the first post in this topic!

Here, too, the question is whether they are violating Islamic law or not. You use the word "tradition" very loosly. I am referring to binding laws versus non-binding traditions and customs.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

But that is not Judaism. That is Jews neglecting Judaism to suit their fancy.

I don't believe for a second that a Jew from 2500 years ago would not be a little surprised by even the most orthodox Jewish teachings of today. Not least in the use of sacrifice and prayer that occurred in 70AD.
All religions change with time, even if the texts and/or "binding laws" don't.

Is it still the same religion after change? Well, Hinduism has changed almost beyond recognition from its origins, but it is still Hinduism.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Here, too, the question is whether they are violating Islamic law or not. You use the word "tradition" very loosely. I am referring to binding laws versus non-binding traditions and customs.

Empowered, feminine women have been a part of Islam for a very long time and continues to be so.
A good modern example is the election of Turkey's first female head of state in the 1990's. 99.8% of Turkish voters where Muslim at the time. There are other examples of empowered women throughout Islamic history.
As for Karate....check out "Nasibah bint Ka'b al-Maziniyyah, Umm 'Umarah" !

Yes, some Islamic states have poor human rights and ever poorer rights for women, but this is because of their culture against women, rather than their religion. When the culture changes, the religion will slowly adapt as it has done in Turkey or, as with Christianity, in Western Europe.