Manned ships?

TDK1044 · 12-07-06, 07:31 AM

I'm going to be interested to see if some adjustment is made to either put lifelike crews on the ships that we attack, or at least to let us hear alarms when a ship is hit. One thing I found to be poor in SH3 was the fact that you were always attacking a ghost ship with no sign of life at all.

I understand that this is a judgement area for the DEVS, in that there are RAM considerations here and they also don't want people using their sub to smash into people who have jumped overboard. However, in my view there needs to be some sort of a compromise so that you do feel that you are attacking a 'manned' ship and not a ghost ship.

It seems pointless to me to build high levels of detailed historical accuracy into the game and then not allow any sign of life on any of the ships. The sub captains knew that they were killing people when they sunk a ship...it came with the job.

Boris · 12-07-06, 07:44 AM

I don't see this happening for SHIV, but they had better have this in SHV.

Crews on deck, releasing lifeboats, jumping over the side etc. Would be cool.

AJ! · 12-07-06, 07:56 AM

They did say crews would have proper animations this time, but i assume thats just for the sub crew.

While having a fully animated crew running round the decks may not make it into game i dont see any reason why they wouldnt include alarms going of on a ship thats been hit or is just about to go into battlestations

Corsair · 12-07-06, 09:08 AM

There is sometimes some sign of life when they start shooting back at you...

TDK1044 · 12-07-06, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

There is sometimes some sign of life when they start shooting back at you...

But only from the ship itself. There's nobody manning the gun.

Corsair · 12-07-06, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

There is sometimes some sign of life when they start shooting back at you...

But only from the ship itself. There's nobody manning the gun.

Would be worried if I was close enough to see it.

TDK1044 · 12-07-06, 02:48 PM

Numerous times I've attacked an armed tanker on the surface using my deck gun, and by using the binoculars you can clearly see the empty deck of the ship you're attacking. It feels very strange attacking a ghost ship.

AJ! · 12-07-06, 03:01 PM

Or of course you could go up to the ship using the free view camera

The ship crews were so brave in SH3. whenever their ship went down they would just stand there motionless at their posts.

Sailor Steve · 12-07-06, 04:52 PM

It feels funny to me reading stuff like this. On the one hand, you're right to demand ever more new stuff and complain when it looks clunky or blocky, but on the other I've been playing subsims since Silent Service and this was the first to have a crew at all, so it's still new and different.

How quickly we become jaded.

TDK1044 · 12-08-06, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It feels funny to me reading stuff like this. On the one hand, you're right to demand ever more new stuff and complain when it looks clunky or blocky, but on the other I've been playing subsims since Silent Service and this was the first to have a crew at all, so it's still new and different.

How quickly we become jaded.

Point well made, Steve.

It just amuses me that we go into endless detail about cloud and wave texture and wanting to see real damage modeling to the ships we hit, but we don't mind the fact that there's nobody on them.

Corsair · 12-08-06, 07:11 AM

At the time SH3 came out, animated crews on all boats would have an impact on the framerate for the medium machines of the time ?

TDK1044 · 12-08-06, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

At the time SH3 came out, animated crews on all boats would have an impact on the framerate for the medium machines of the time ?

You are totally correct. I guess I'm just looking for a compromise that could be more audio based than visual and which helps you to believe that the ships in SH4 actually have crews on them.

elanaiba · 12-08-06, 08:38 AM

I for one am very pro to seeing animated crew on the ships you attack. Hell, there were some guys manning guns on SH3 ships. But there's room for more:

- command deck crew
- watchmen looking around
- misc crew moving on the ship
- guys actually reloading the guns, doing stuff.
- damage control teams fighting fire
- crew abandoning ship

But then you'll have more trouble, questions raised and work to do:
- do you need collision/hit detection on them? To see them get killed when and explosion lands around them, or for gameplay purposes:if you shoot a light machine gun on a open 3" gun, you shouldn't be able to destroy it, but perhaps supress or kill the crew, right?
- some sort of AI - do they avoid walking in fire?
- a connection between their presence and ship systems efficiency
- a decision mechanic - when is there crew on visible in XX location? Are they present all day and all night? Harbor or not? etc.
- Not to mention the moral question of shooting crewmembers - which could immediately raise the rating of the game.

With time, I'm sure the Silent Hunter will get some sort of AI for the crew, with several states that can also be judged by examining the ship:
- Leisure cruise - poor crews not manning the guns and less efficient in sensors
- normal cruise - all systems manned,
- Battle stations - all systems manned, full efficiency according to ship crew rating
- Damage Control - all systems are less efficient
- Abandoning ship - lookouts and guns get deserted one after the other, sensors are coming off

I would have the ships and their crews "talk" to each other - for example a small AI that has ships reacting to friendly of neutral entities coming within a certain range but not part of the same group. With a little work, you could wave the men on the deck waving, yelling an "Ahoy". Using a blinker light so send a message (ship's name?). Stoping to pick up survivors from other ships. Stuff like that.

Now, this is just outta my head and a few ideas I put on paper some time ago, but with a little time it could be developed in a working system.

TDK1044 · 12-08-06, 08:56 AM

In the fruition of time, it would be great to see any of those thoughs actually implemented. Thanks, Dan.

12-07-06, 07:31 AM	#1
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Manned ships? I'm going to be interested to see if some adjustment is made to either put lifelike crews on the ships that we attack, or at least to let us hear alarms when a ship is hit. One thing I found to be poor in SH3 was the fact that you were always attacking a ghost ship with no sign of life at all. I understand that this is a judgement area for the DEVS, in that there are RAM considerations here and they also don't want people using their sub to smash into people who have jumped overboard. However, in my view there needs to be some sort of a compromise so that you do feel that you are attacking a 'manned' ship and not a ghost ship. It seems pointless to me to build high levels of detailed historical accuracy into the game and then not allow any sign of life on any of the ships. The sub captains knew that they were killing people when they sunk a ship...it came with the job.

12-07-06, 09:08 AM	#4
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	There is sometimes some sign of life when they start shooting back at you... __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

12-07-06, 03:01 PM	#8
AJ! Commodore Join Date: May 2006 Location: That lil island above france Posts: 601 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Or of course you could go up to the ship using the free view camera The ship crews were so brave in SH3. whenever their ship went down they would just stand there motionless at their posts. __________________

12-07-06, 04:52 PM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	It feels funny to me reading stuff like this. On the one hand, you're right to demand ever more new stuff and complain when it looks clunky or blocky, but on the other I've been playing subsims since Silent Service and this was the first to have a crew at all, so it's still new and different. How quickly we become jaded. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-08-06, 07:11 AM	#11
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	At the time SH3 came out, animated crews on all boats would have an impact on the framerate for the medium machines of the time ? __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

12-07-06, 07:44 AM	#2
Boris Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 1,691 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	I don't see this happening for SHIV, but they had better have this in SHV. Crews on deck, releasing lifeboats, jumping over the side etc. Would be cool.

12-07-06, 07:56 AM	#3
AJ! Commodore Join Date: May 2006 Location: That lil island above france Posts: 601 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	They did say crews would have proper animations this time, but i assume thats just for the sub crew. While having a fully animated crew running round the decks may not make it into game i dont see any reason why they wouldnt include alarms going of on a ship thats been hit or is just about to go into battlestations

12-07-06, 02:48 PM	#7
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Numerous times I've attacked an armed tanker on the surface using my deck gun, and by using the binoculars you can clearly see the empty deck of the ship you're attacking. It feels very strange attacking a ghost ship.

12-08-06, 08:38 AM	#13
elanaiba Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,058 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 3	I for one am very pro to seeing animated crew on the ships you attack. Hell, there were some guys manning guns on SH3 ships. But there's room for more: - command deck crew - watchmen looking around - misc crew moving on the ship - guys actually reloading the guns, doing stuff. - damage control teams fighting fire - crew abandoning ship But then you'll have more trouble, questions raised and work to do: - do you need collision/hit detection on them? To see them get killed when and explosion lands around them, or for gameplay purposes:if you shoot a light machine gun on a open 3" gun, you shouldn't be able to destroy it, but perhaps supress or kill the crew, right? - some sort of AI - do they avoid walking in fire? - a connection between their presence and ship systems efficiency - a decision mechanic - when is there crew on visible in XX location? Are they present all day and all night? Harbor or not? etc. - Not to mention the moral question of shooting crewmembers - which could immediately raise the rating of the game. With time, I'm sure the Silent Hunter will get some sort of AI for the crew, with several states that can also be judged by examining the ship: - Leisure cruise - poor crews not manning the guns and less efficient in sensors - normal cruise - all systems manned, - Battle stations - all systems manned, full efficiency according to ship crew rating - Damage Control - all systems are less efficient - Abandoning ship - lookouts and guns get deserted one after the other, sensors are coming off I would have the ships and their crews "talk" to each other - for example a small AI that has ships reacting to friendly of neutral entities coming within a certain range but not part of the same group. With a little work, you could wave the men on the deck waving, yelling an "Ahoy". Using a blinker light so send a message (ship's name?). Stoping to pick up survivors from other ships. Stuff like that. Now, this is just outta my head and a few ideas I put on paper some time ago, but with a little time it could be developed in a working system.

12-08-06, 08:56 AM	#14
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	In the fruition of time, it would be great to see any of those thoughs actually implemented. Thanks, Dan.