LWAMI sonoboy doctrine

[BigBadVuk]

I finaly managet to lay my hands on Toms Clancy RSR...So there is a part where USS Chicago intercepts russian SAG and in one moment a active sonoboy drops some 500m from them....(now comis the interesting part) The reaction from skipper was like : OK maybe they can detect us but we can move to safe distance THEY CANT MONITOR ALL OF THEM AT ONCE.....
So i was thinking is it possible that if ASW plane is overhead and there is more than 10 boys around to do something with them so that plane cant monithor them all at same time...Perhaps you can put some timer to block boys in doctrine so that he cant use thme all at once.Or maybe that is hardcoded..
Maybe it is small stuff but ( in my opinion) it will add a lot of realism
Or maybe Im out of my mind :rotfl:

[sonar732]

True, they can't monitor all of them at once. Let's say you are playing the P-3 and look at the display. There are 8 seperate displays, but I use directional mode so that cuts it down to 4. I constantly change my sonobouys if I don't see something and to follow a pattern for contact triangulation. Granted, it takes a little more time, but I make the rounds, if you will, eventually.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by BigBadVuk

OK maybe they can detect us but we can move to safe distance THEY CANT MONITOR ALL OF THEM AT ONCE.....

It's already in there. First off, you only have so many channels you can monitor at once. Secondly, you can't get data from sonobuoys that are out of range. Those are the real life limitations. Anything else is artificial. Now... if you want to be a REAL geek, you can get into *this* model has *this* processor and can model *this* many channels at once from *this altitude* P-3s have been around so long and have had so many different pieces of software and hardware installed, that at this point, there's lots of different flavors of P-3.

How wide an area do you think an aircraft can search anyhow? If you're playing a realistically scaled mission, you won't be able to monitor every buoy continuously. You'll either have too many buoys out, or you'll be too far away. A smart pilot will figure out some kind of pattern to fly so that he can stay in contact with the most buoys possible, while still replenishing buoys that go dead on him.

Also, bare in mind that Tom Clancy is not the best metric to measure realism against. His books are very suspenseful and fun to read, but... he writes fiction. TOM CLANCY IS AN INSURANCE SALESMAN BY TRADE. He is not a naval professional. He just likes to hang out around them and have fantasies.

[BigBadVuk]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

It's already in there. First off, you only have so many channels you can monitor at once. Secondly, you can't get data from sonobuoys that are out of range. Those are the real life limitations. Anything else is artificial. Now... if you want to be a REAL geek, you can get into *this* model has *this* processor and can model *this* many channels at once from *this altitude* P-3s have been around so long and have had so many different pieces of software and hardware installed, that at this point, there's lots of different flavors of P-3.

How wide an area do you think an aircraft can search anyhow? If you're playing a realistically scaled mission, you won't be able to monitor every buoy continuously. You'll either have too many buoys out, or you'll be too far away. A smart pilot will figure out some kind of pattern to fly so that he can stay in contact with the most buoys possible, while still replenishing buoys that go dead on him.

Also, bare in mind that Tom Clancy is not the best metric to measure realism against. His books are very suspenseful and fun to read, but... he writes fiction. TOM CLANCY IS AN INSURANCE SALESMAN BY TRADE. He is not a naval professional. He just likes to hang out around them and have fantasies.

Thx..so that is already limited....To be clear: AI controlled P3 has also same tracking capabilities as human controlled? Right? i mean he cant drop 20 of them and monitor all at once?

About Tom..YEs i know he is not 100% realistic but as you say: HE IS FUN and playing DW after reading is much more fun..same goes for SHIII after watching Das Boot

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by sonar732

True, they can't monitor all of them at once. Let's say you are playing the P-3 and look at the display. There are 8 seperate displays, but I use directional mode so that cuts it down to 4. I constantly change my sonobouys if I don't see something and to follow a pattern for contact triangulation. Granted, it takes a little more time, but I make the rounds, if you will, eventually.

There's still the "hot buoy" "feature."

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

There's still the "hot buoy" "feature."

I didn't say that I'm "voiced" in the P-3. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by BigBadVuk

Thx..so that is already limited....To be clear: AI controlled P3 has also same tracking capabilities as human controlled? Right? i mean he cant drop 20 of them and monitor all at once?

Luftwulf is probably the best person to ask about that. I've never really had any problems with AI controlled aircraft, though. They've always behaved fairly reasonably as far as I could tell.

I know I've only been harping about this for years, but the key is to make sure the distance scale for the scenario is reasonable for the platforms, sensors, and weapons involved. If you don't, then you run the risk of making things too easy for the platforms.

A naval battle is not like a dogfight. It's not fought over the course of few minutes. It's fought over the course of a few hours to a few days. A typical P-3 patrol is 6-8 hours long plus transit time to and from the area it's searching. Part of the reason why it takes that long is that they're expected to search big areas.

About Tom..YEs i know he is not 100% realistic but as you say: HE IS FUN and playing DW after reading is much more fun..same goes for SHIII after watching Das Boot

I'm not against it. It's just that it's not a wise idea to question a simulation's fidelity based only on a excerpt from a Tom Clancy novel. I was talking to another wargamer at work about this the other day, actually. We both agreed that it was hard to find scenarios for naval simulations that were reasonable. Since it's rare for reporters to really cover war from a naval perspective, and since naval professionals in particular is obsessed with secrecy, people who lack naval experience don't really have a picture of what a naval battle looks like, and the sorts of things that need to be taken into account. Hence, a lot of scenarios for "toy" naval simulations are really bad.

[LuftWolf]

The way sonobuoy data is read from AI platforms is hardcoded in the engine, and from what I can tell works pretty well. If there is an AI platforms with LOS to the buoy, the data will be used by the AI to update the datalink.

In fact, the AI does it so well that when playing as the P-3 (back when I played DW... ) I actually would lay buoy fields and let the AI controlled helos do the actual work of data analysis from the buoys and for the most part the final kills as well, when I felt lazy.

I wish I did have more control over things like buoy dropping from A/C's, but virtually all control is at the engine level.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Incidentially, I'm still around, like Dr Dre.

I'm personally sorry that I haven't released anything recently. I hope the new year can bring us all some gifts (like time...).

I hope all my friends at Subsim had a nice holiday, and a great New Year.

Cheers,
David