Overview of Realism settings

Incubus · 11-28-06, 12:14 AM

All these are based on stock SHIII:

Limited Batteries- Pretty pointless having this on. Also creates a stupid 'overlap' with 'limited fuel' (just travel around submerged 99% of the time) which artifically lets you get away with more 'realism' than you should. Limited batts is exciting; seeing if you can manage to sneak through the Strait of Gibraltar or other dangerous places. Another silly thing is even if the batteries are completely dead your sub still goes at 1kt. People say, 'just use X mod' but I'd actually rather see a patch for these kind of things.

Limited Fuel- Same issue as limited batteries. The point of the type IX series is range; using limited fuel really forces you to think about your patrols and be conservative. The thing I like about this game is that every decision has consequences, but the consequences are abstract and not scripted (running out of fuel because you cruise too fast, for example)

Historical Loading time- Makes convoy attacks stupidly easy. If you know what you are doing, you can pretty much flatten the whole convoy with the increased load time. Keeping them at historical levels also gives you a point to handing out Torpedoman designations, and making sure the torpedo sections are properly manned. It also makes loading external stores a harrowing experience (particularly for the type IX boats which have way, way too many externals!)

Limited Compressed air- I'm not sure why they even bothered to put this in. Does compressed air do anything beyond blowing ballast? Generally, if you have to blow more than once/twice, you're probably hosed anyway. So even if you can mash the 'e' key to your heart's content this isn't gonna help much. Even for newbie/young players I'd say keep it realistic.

No map contact updates- This one is debatable. BdU did gives subs contact reports (it was even in Das Boot, damn it!

) and since stock doesn't allow you to form wolfpacks and the radio function is extremely limited as it is, I don't mind this. Disabling it definitely does put your sensors (both the subs and your own eyes and ears) to the test. Ironically enough, I blunder into more convoys than BdU points out for me. Go figure

Weapon officer assistance/Manual aiming- Funny thing about these two is you can have one on and one off and get virtually the same benefit while having a slightly higher realism %. Not very practical, but there are a few benefits- by having manual off but weapon officer on, you can 'train' yourself to fire manual solutions; if the firing solution is iffy you can have the weapon officer plot the solution, otherwise, go it manually. Another thing novice players should know is that while 'auto' mode is theoretically easier to set a firing solution, it is by no means a guaranteed hit. Often times setting up a auto shot that has a good chance of hitting isn't much harder to do manually, also.

Noise Meter- Maybe useful for someone who hasn't had any idea what sub warfare is like. Personally its pretty easy to do without. Actual crews had enough common sense to know how noisy their subs were- if the screws are chugging away, stuff is banging and clattering around in compartments, you are probably making a big noise signature. Silent Running mode means you don't really need the noise meter. If you are worried about noise, rig for silent running and creep very slowly. There is very, very little gray area between 'quiet' and 'too noisy' when it comes to nearby DDs.

Event Camera- Fun, but makes things too easy. It is neat having a chance to watch a ship crack in two while you are hiding several kms away, but the fact that it activates when planes are making attack runs makes it too easy to escape danger. Part of the fun of the game is you have to be on guard during the WHOLE patrol, because there are so many ways to get caught with your pants down. The event camera can kind of take the suspense out of it.

Free View- More flexible than the Event Camera. At the worst, Free View lets you blatantly cheat; you can see depth without pinging, or spot ships in bad weather. However, it is nice in other situations, like setting up screenshots, or just admiring your boat gliding through calm water during sunrise. Since you can control it, it is a 'for fun' toggle in my opinion.

Incubus · 11-28-06, 12:18 AM

oops, forgot two:

Realistic Sensors- Takes the fun out of the hydrophone/radar upgrades. Just because you have detection capabilities, doesn't mean they are foolproof. I like working with the limitations of the technology of the time, it makes it feel nicer when you get a better radar set/detector/widget/etc.

Realistic damage- A lot of players have mentioned that even with it set to 'realistic' its too unrealistic. I think for very novice players, having this be more forgiving gives them a chance to practice evasion and stealth techniques without having to repeatedly die and try again. However, once you know how to stay unseen/unheard, no reason to not have realistic damage. As a submarine, YOU have the iniative, and can pick your fights. If you sink, often it is because of a chain of decisions you made. Because of this, it doesn't benefit in the long run to have this 'off' (well, maybe for little kids and stuff)

Incubus · 11-28-06, 12:28 AM

Finally, I had some ideas that would have been cool to see. The main point of these isn't to eliminate the 'sim' aspect of the game, but to give the player a better sense of enemy detection.

Asdic Signature Meter- Would be represented by a horizontal bar. The wider the bar, the bigger your signature to Asidc. if you deployed decoys, they would have their own bar. This would mainly be for 'training' purposes so when you play the game for real, you know when to use decoys, which direction to best turn, etc. Right now I'm not really sure how the game models your sonar signature- the manual hints that it does, but nobody has given me a straight answer or pointed to a .cfg file that breaks it down. As such, it would be nice to have something like this just to know if it is even a factor in the game.

Radar Signature Meter- Same deal, only against radar while you are surfaced. The width of the bar would be based on 1.) Model of your radar (if its on) 2.)Distance to an enemy radar source and 3.) Profile of your ship against enemy radar. Weather would also be a factor.

another reason I'd want these is because right now there are 2 anti sonar coating upgrades and 1 anti radar upgrade. Nobody has given me a straight answer on their effectiveness, or any hard numbers on how they benefit you. It bothers me that I could be paying 1000/1500/2000 renown on something that may just be a placebo.

WhiteW0lf · 11-28-06, 12:28 AM

How old are you? You seem to not understand these settings much at all but to complain about each of them, I am not even going to go into fixing each of your points in every setting that was grossly incorrect.

Incubus · 11-28-06, 12:36 AM

I understand the settings perfectly fine. What is your problem? I was just talking about the pros/cons of them. This is a game first and foremost. The realism settings allow you to play the game in a way you enjoy the most.

I am not so much complaining about each setting, but rather talking about their purpose (like if having a setting be unrealistic actually makes the game easier, or a setting that makes the realism % artificially high)

_Seth_ · 11-28-06, 01:10 AM

Hey guys, ease up a little. Dont be bad at each other..

The enemy is in Scapa Flow, not here.....
I like having the opportunity to set it all to "easy"... If im p**sed off after a bad patrol, i can go back and get my revenge!!! (Well, kinda cheating, but....Its a game!!

) The only thing that sometimes bother me, is the possibility to press "esc", and "return to base". I have done this alot, but i would like it if i didnt had that opportunity, and was forced to go "manually" back to base. I know this isnt a big deal, but.....

Tachyon · 11-28-06, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteW0lf

How old are you? You seem to not understand these settings much at all but to complain about each of them, I am not even going to go into fixing each of your points in every setting that was grossly incorrect.

"How old are you?" was an unnecessary statement. Please choose your words carefully. That statement indirectly refers to a person being immature. If you'd like to contradict him, pls get to the point, and not via silly comments. We'd like to keep this board community friendly. And in case i sound like ur parents, ignore me.

Its just that I'd prefer ppl to get along well.

Corsair · 11-28-06, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth_

The only thing that sometimes bother me, is the possibility to press "esc", and "return to base". I have done this alot, but i would like it if i didnt had that opportunity, and was forced to go "manually" back to base. I know this isnt a big deal, but.....

Solution is rather simple : just don't do it !!!

HunterICX · 11-28-06, 06:14 AM

Fact: Ubi brought the game out uncompleted.

Fact2: Ubi isnt going to patch it anymore because they are too busy with SH4

Fact3: because UBI isnt going to patch or change anything on SH3 thats why the community gives you the option to download Mods that you can see as a Patch

because they fix what Ubi didnt
because they add more realism
they Add more Uboat warfare athmosphere.

still it stays a game with his limitations. you cant completly get the game 100% historical correct. but the supermods got as close as they can get.

thats the reason why most people mod their games to get rid of the dull stock SH3.

HunterICX

melnibonian · 11-28-06, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incubus

Realistic Sensors- Takes the fun out of the hydrophone/radar upgrades. Just because you have detection capabilities, doesn't mean they are foolproof. I like working with the limitations of the technology of the time, it makes it feel nicer when you get a better radar set/detector/widget/etc.

Realistic damage- A lot of players have mentioned that even with it set to 'realistic' its too unrealistic. I think for very novice players, having this be more forgiving gives them a chance to practice evasion and stealth techniques without having to repeatedly die and try again. However, once you know how to stay unseen/unheard, no reason to not have realistic damage. As a submarine, YOU have the iniative, and can pick your fights. If you sink, often it is because of a chain of decisions you made. Because of this, it doesn't benefit in the long run to have this 'off' (well, maybe for little kids and stuff)

Whait until GWX is released and you will change your mind. DDs are deadly and your hydrophones cannot ditect a convoy 1000 miles away as in the stock game. Once the Destroyers have you in their sonars it's mighty difficult to get rid of them (I said difficult not impossible). As for the damage from the depth charges??? I was attacked once and was blown to the surface from the depth charges, where the Royal Navy ships gave me the full gun salute

_Seth_ · 11-28-06, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth_

The only thing that sometimes bother me, is the possibility to press "esc", and "return to base". I have done this alot, but i would like it if i didnt had that opportunity, and was forced to go "manually" back to base. I know this isnt a big deal, but.....

Solution is rather simple : just don't do it !!!

:rotfl: I know, but sometimes i cant help myself.... I'll guess: if the reward for not pressing escape was something excellent, like 2000 renown, i could easily return manually to the port....but it is sooooo tempting...........

danlisa · 11-28-06, 10:27 AM

@ Seth

Then make it 2000 renown.

I always edit my renown figures for Reaching patrol grid, Completing 24hrs & Returning to port. It makes it worthwhile to follow BDU's orders.

_Seth_ · 11-28-06, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

@ Seth

Then make it 2000 renown.

I always edit my renown figures for Reaching patrol grid, Completing 24hrs & Returning to port. It makes it worthwhile to follow BDU's orders.

Yeah Dan, i could do that... But that could be cheating......Ohhhhh, its a hard dilemma....

What the h*ck, i'll do it!

btw: Dan, any repaints on the horizon?

IceGrog · 11-28-06, 10:53 AM

I think this post was about the realistic part of the game, well as for myself I want it as realistic as I can get it but having said that I can’t get rid of my external camera, I’m addicted to it. I love watching all the screens of battle that goes on that in real life I wouldn’t be able to see. I feel so cheap………………but I get over it.

danlisa · 11-28-06, 10:53 AM

A few, but not until GWX is released. New files and all that, as it is I will have to re-pack the ones I've released already.

11-28-06, 12:14 AM	#1
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Overview of Realism settings All these are based on stock SHIII: Limited Batteries- Pretty pointless having this on. Also creates a stupid 'overlap' with 'limited fuel' (just travel around submerged 99% of the time) which artifically lets you get away with more 'realism' than you should. Limited batts is exciting; seeing if you can manage to sneak through the Strait of Gibraltar or other dangerous places. Another silly thing is even if the batteries are completely dead your sub still goes at 1kt. People say, 'just use X mod' but I'd actually rather see a patch for these kind of things. Limited Fuel- Same issue as limited batteries. The point of the type IX series is range; using limited fuel really forces you to think about your patrols and be conservative. The thing I like about this game is that every decision has consequences, but the consequences are abstract and not scripted (running out of fuel because you cruise too fast, for example) Historical Loading time- Makes convoy attacks stupidly easy. If you know what you are doing, you can pretty much flatten the whole convoy with the increased load time. Keeping them at historical levels also gives you a point to handing out Torpedoman designations, and making sure the torpedo sections are properly manned. It also makes loading external stores a harrowing experience (particularly for the type IX boats which have way, way too many externals!) Limited Compressed air- I'm not sure why they even bothered to put this in. Does compressed air do anything beyond blowing ballast? Generally, if you have to blow more than once/twice, you're probably hosed anyway. So even if you can mash the 'e' key to your heart's content this isn't gonna help much. Even for newbie/young players I'd say keep it realistic. No map contact updates- This one is debatable. BdU did gives subs contact reports (it was even in Das Boot, damn it! ) and since stock doesn't allow you to form wolfpacks and the radio function is extremely limited as it is, I don't mind this. Disabling it definitely does put your sensors (both the subs and your own eyes and ears) to the test. Ironically enough, I blunder into more convoys than BdU points out for me. Go figure Weapon officer assistance/Manual aiming- Funny thing about these two is you can have one on and one off and get virtually the same benefit while having a slightly higher realism %. Not very practical, but there are a few benefits- by having manual off but weapon officer on, you can 'train' yourself to fire manual solutions; if the firing solution is iffy you can have the weapon officer plot the solution, otherwise, go it manually. Another thing novice players should know is that while 'auto' mode is theoretically easier to set a firing solution, it is by no means a guaranteed hit. Often times setting up a auto shot that has a good chance of hitting isn't much harder to do manually, also. Noise Meter- Maybe useful for someone who hasn't had any idea what sub warfare is like. Personally its pretty easy to do without. Actual crews had enough common sense to know how noisy their subs were- if the screws are chugging away, stuff is banging and clattering around in compartments, you are probably making a big noise signature. Silent Running mode means you don't really need the noise meter. If you are worried about noise, rig for silent running and creep very slowly. There is very, very little gray area between 'quiet' and 'too noisy' when it comes to nearby DDs. Event Camera- Fun, but makes things too easy. It is neat having a chance to watch a ship crack in two while you are hiding several kms away, but the fact that it activates when planes are making attack runs makes it too easy to escape danger. Part of the fun of the game is you have to be on guard during the WHOLE patrol, because there are so many ways to get caught with your pants down. The event camera can kind of take the suspense out of it. Free View- More flexible than the Event Camera. At the worst, Free View lets you blatantly cheat; you can see depth without pinging, or spot ships in bad weather. However, it is nice in other situations, like setting up screenshots, or just admiring your boat gliding through calm water during sunrise. Since you can control it, it is a 'for fun' toggle in my opinion.

11-28-06, 01:10 AM	#6
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Hey guys, ease up a little. Dont be bad at each other.. The enemy is in Scapa Flow, not here..... I like having the opportunity to set it all to "easy"... If im p**sed off after a bad patrol, i can go back and get my revenge!!! (Well, kinda cheating, but....Its a game!! ) The only thing that sometimes bother me, is the possibility to press "esc", and "return to base". I have done this alot, but i would like it if i didnt had that opportunity, and was forced to go "manually" back to base. I know this isnt a big deal, but..... __________________

11-28-06, 06:14 AM	#9
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Fact: Ubi brought the game out uncompleted. Fact2: Ubi isnt going to patch it anymore because they are too busy with SH4 Fact3: because UBI isnt going to patch or change anything on SH3 thats why the community gives you the option to download Mods that you can see as a Patch because they fix what Ubi didnt because they add more realism they Add more Uboat warfare athmosphere. still it stays a game with his limitations. you cant completly get the game 100% historical correct. but the supermods got as close as they can get. thats the reason why most people mod their games to get rid of the dull stock SH3. HunterICX __________________

11-28-06, 10:27 AM	#12
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	@ Seth Then make it 2000 renown. I always edit my renown figures for Reaching patrol grid, Completing 24hrs & Returning to port. It makes it worthwhile to follow BDU's orders. __________________

11-28-06, 10:53 AM	#14
IceGrog Engineer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA on the edge of the Pacific Posts: 217 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think this post was about the realistic part of the game, well as for myself I want it as realistic as I can get it but having said that I can’t get rid of my external camera, I’m addicted to it. I love watching all the screens of battle that goes on that in real life I wouldn’t be able to see. I feel so cheap………………but I get over it. __________________ U-551 7th Flottille Laid down: 21 Nov, 1939, Blohm & Voss, Hamburg Commissioned: 7 Nov, 1940 Commander: Kptlt. IceGrog von Ritter Sunk: 12/11/1940, 01/01/1941, 10/16/1941, 01/16/1942, 08/04/1943 .................................................. .......... A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory

11-28-06, 12:18 AM	#2
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	oops, forgot two: Realistic Sensors- Takes the fun out of the hydrophone/radar upgrades. Just because you have detection capabilities, doesn't mean they are foolproof. I like working with the limitations of the technology of the time, it makes it feel nicer when you get a better radar set/detector/widget/etc. Realistic damage- A lot of players have mentioned that even with it set to 'realistic' its too unrealistic. I think for very novice players, having this be more forgiving gives them a chance to practice evasion and stealth techniques without having to repeatedly die and try again. However, once you know how to stay unseen/unheard, no reason to not have realistic damage. As a submarine, YOU have the iniative, and can pick your fights. If you sink, often it is because of a chain of decisions you made. Because of this, it doesn't benefit in the long run to have this 'off' (well, maybe for little kids and stuff)

11-28-06, 12:28 AM	#3
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Finally, I had some ideas that would have been cool to see. The main point of these isn't to eliminate the 'sim' aspect of the game, but to give the player a better sense of enemy detection. Asdic Signature Meter- Would be represented by a horizontal bar. The wider the bar, the bigger your signature to Asidc. if you deployed decoys, they would have their own bar. This would mainly be for 'training' purposes so when you play the game for real, you know when to use decoys, which direction to best turn, etc. Right now I'm not really sure how the game models your sonar signature- the manual hints that it does, but nobody has given me a straight answer or pointed to a .cfg file that breaks it down. As such, it would be nice to have something like this just to know if it is even a factor in the game. Radar Signature Meter- Same deal, only against radar while you are surfaced. The width of the bar would be based on 1.) Model of your radar (if its on) 2.)Distance to an enemy radar source and 3.) Profile of your ship against enemy radar. Weather would also be a factor. another reason I'd want these is because right now there are 2 anti sonar coating upgrades and 1 anti radar upgrade. Nobody has given me a straight answer on their effectiveness, or any hard numbers on how they benefit you. It bothers me that I could be paying 1000/1500/2000 renown on something that may just be a placebo.

11-28-06, 12:28 AM	#4
WhiteW0lf Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cyprus Posts: 82 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	How old are you? You seem to not understand these settings much at all but to complain about each of them, I am not even going to go into fixing each of your points in every setting that was grossly incorrect.

11-28-06, 12:36 AM	#5
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I understand the settings perfectly fine. What is your problem? I was just talking about the pros/cons of them. This is a game first and foremost. The realism settings allow you to play the game in a way you enjoy the most. I am not so much complaining about each setting, but rather talking about their purpose (like if having a setting be unrealistic actually makes the game easier, or a setting that makes the realism % artificially high)