Sinking Times

Wijbrandus · 11-13-06, 11:01 AM

I am using Sub Hunter III 1.4b with Grey Wolves 1.1a installed - all the latest versions. I am also using Sub Commander, also the latest version.

I notice that ships take a long time to sink. I very rarely get a ship going down fast. I ofted have to place the time compression on max, and sit and wait for the ship to sink, sometimes for 20 or thirty minutes of real time at 32x speed, or I have to put more torpedos into the target.

How do I know if a ship is going to sink? If it hits a speed of zero, is it going to go down? If I continue my patrol, and a ship sinks where no one can see it, did it really sink? Will I get credit for it?

Last night, I caught a larget cargo and a large tanker running together. I fired a spread that put a torp half a meter under the keel on each one, almost simultaneously impacting. The tanker stopped dead. The cargo limped on, and I had to chase it down and hit it three more times before it stopped. Then I had to hit it again for it to heel over and sink. This took quite a while, as it was dodging all over the place, and the conditions were pretty rough - night, rough seas, rain, and wind.

Almost 12 hours had passed by now, and when I went back to the tanker, it was still afloat, decks awash, and not moving. My last torpedo was used, and it finally went down.

Is there a way I can speed up the speed at which ships will sink so that I can get on with the game? I'd love to sit and circle the target for a few hours watching it slowly ease into the depths, but I only get a little game time anymore, and I feel I'm wasting it in observation time. I feel like I'm "wasting" torpedos on targets that will sink eventually, if given enough time, but that my outside concerns are impacting the way I have to play the game.

Respenus · 11-13-06, 11:14 AM

Sink times are OK. Don't question them, they are correct in GW. It's more realistic!

AVGWarhawk · 11-13-06, 01:07 PM

If you do not see it sink you do not get credit for it.

Sink times are dead on. A lot of vessels made port while smoking and full of torpedo holes.

The only way to know it the ship will sink is sit and wait or come back if she is dead in the water. I stopped a c2 and chased a small coast that was travelling with the c2. I sunk it and returned to finish the job on the c2.

I do not know how to change this time to sink. GW has made a mod to compartmentalize the ship like in life. These were air tight via bulk heads. You must not keep hitting the same spot over and over, you must hit in two to three spots. Sometimes you do get that lucky on one torpedo and she sinks quickly. Sometimes you have to fight for the sinking!

Oh yeah, if the ship is in bad shape use the cannon to finish it off. Save a torp or two.

hyperion2206 · 11-13-06, 01:16 PM

I think it's realistic that bigger and newer vessels don't think so fast, but most of the ships were really old ones dating back to WWI and most of them went down after only one torpedo. I think that should be modeled as well, don't you think? However, don't get me wrong: I love TGW!!!!!!

AVGWarhawk · 11-13-06, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

I think it's realistic that bigger and newer vessels don't think so fast, but most of the ships were really old ones dating back to WWI and most of them went down after only one torpedo. I think that should be modeled as well, don't you think? However, don't get me wrong: I love TGW!!!!!!

Just because they were old does not mean a thing. In fact they usually survived better then the newer vessels. What usually would happen is the older vessels would make port but usually scrapped out because of the torpedo hit. I read this in 'twilight of the U-boat".

TarJak · 11-13-06, 04:14 PM

You can always try aiming for weak points like just to the rear of the fuel bunkers or on warships in the ammo magazines. This tends to blow the ship apart with one shot. The community wiki has some screenshots with the weakpoints marked.

KevinB · 11-13-06, 01:23 PM

I have just finished reading a book about the 7th U-Boat Flottilla which states that "some ships went down very quickly, but others remained stubbornly afloat and it was not too uncommon to encounter empty wrecks refusing to sink".

So I shouldn't worry too much about them going down as TGW creates the realism, unless you want to use most of your torps and gun ammo.
I also think hanging around will have brought back pretty soon as no doubt the merchants would have sent a message.

Wijbrandus · 11-13-06, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinB

I have just finished reading a book about the 7th U-Boat Flottilla which states that "some ships went down very quickly, but others remained stubbornly afloat and it was not too uncommon to encounter empty wrecks refusing to sink".

What book was that? I'm interested in reading all sorts of U-boat histories. Was it worth the price?

KevinB · 11-13-06, 01:37 PM

The publisher is Spearhead and the title is 7th U-Boat Flottilla Doenitz's Atlantic Wolves by Angus Konstam & Jak Mallman Showell. It's only 96 pages but got loads of photos.
The website for the publisher is www.ianallansuperstore.com

Yes it was worth it but it was in the sale at a third of the price!

Actually I've just seen it on Amazon.

Wijbrandus · 11-13-06, 01:29 PM

I'm all for realism, that's why I downloaded TGW yesterday.

My issue is I don't want to spend my one or two hours of game time an evening waiting for a ship to sink, and using multiple torpedos to sink it is bad for my score.

I read in another thread that to make them flood faster you need to poke holes in other parts of the ship. I'll try that tonight. Center shot to stop the ship, and a shot in the bow or stern to help it along, see if that helps.

If it works, great. If not, I'll have to consider going back to Vanilla.

MRV · 11-13-06, 08:03 PM

I just need to vent now!!!!

Just torpedoed that damn King George V, she ate 8 (!!!!) eels (no duds) the first got her engines and so she stopped.....I then waited till the flooding took the Rest of her NOTHING!!!!

OK, I blasted my last 4 Torps right under her 2. forward Turret, where the Ammo Bunker should be which I hoped would blow up, NOTHING. No explosion and the flooding STILL wasn't enough.

I'm using GW......Guys PLEASE ADJUST THAT DAMAGE MODEL!!!! I know that was a Battleship...but.....c'mon......8 TORPEDOES!!!!

Even though I edited the Zones.cfg and decreased the critical flooding of almost all ships and increased the critical hit probability, this seems to have no effect at the game. I still need 2 Torps for a 2000-ton coastal merchant everytime! (10. Patrol now).
(Its OK for ships to survive more then they should SOMETIMES, but not everytime)

I dont mind long sinking times, I mean ships not sinking at all! If you look close enough with the external camera, you'll notice that there is a moment when the ship stops to take flooding and just stays at the surface, I once waited 2 days for a ship to sink, while she hung in the Water about 30 Degrees to starbord with 3/4 of the Deck in the Water....I once ended up having crippled 4 ships like this, no one sunk -> 0 renown.

No one would in reality consider this ship NOT destroyed! This simply cant be realistic.

So please, tweak this if you can, this is the urgent call for help of a guy who stayed awake longer then planned to sink that damn bucket!! (Cant save and load when a ship is damaged.....you all know why....)

Pants · 11-13-06, 09:08 PM

GW 1.1 uses NYGM's damage model, GWX however uses a whole NEW damage model, re-written from scratch by Von ( damn fine job to ) sinkings are easier ( kind of

)..but i'm not going to say too much as the beta testing phase is still on going.

TarJak · 11-13-06, 09:19 PM

Not sure if you are aware the best place to hit almost all warships is in their ammo magazines. Although I've also had some success with hitting light cruisers right between the funnels in their engine rooms.

Most Merchies usually go down with one to their fuel bunker.

I usually use impact detonators set for between 3 and 7m depending on the targets.

MRV · 11-14-06, 09:21 AM

@ TarJak

This is exactly what I missed, an increased probability of blowing up ships when hitting in the right place. When not, they may sink through flooding or not, its fine for me. But I saved and loaded in front of the King George V a few times, aiming and shooting at different places (for experiment). I never managed to blow the magazine up, like on the first try with 4 torpedoes fired right INTO the magazine (and ordering flank speed to turn my boat into a ramrod afterwards, with no effect *lol*)

About merchants: Tankers are modelled correctly I think, taking one hit and blowing up, or taking 2 or 3 if empty, because those things are about 10000 tons in displacement, this is OK.

What bugs me are the small/coastal merchants, like I said I everytime need 2 eels for them, no exception when I used that DM so far.

stabiz · 11-14-06, 09:27 AM

Trust me, GWX will deliver in this area too.

11-13-06, 11:01 AM	#1
Wijbrandus Loader Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 83 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Sinking Times I am using Sub Hunter III 1.4b with Grey Wolves 1.1a installed - all the latest versions. I am also using Sub Commander, also the latest version. I notice that ships take a long time to sink. I very rarely get a ship going down fast. I ofted have to place the time compression on max, and sit and wait for the ship to sink, sometimes for 20 or thirty minutes of real time at 32x speed, or I have to put more torpedos into the target. How do I know if a ship is going to sink? If it hits a speed of zero, is it going to go down? If I continue my patrol, and a ship sinks where no one can see it, did it really sink? Will I get credit for it? Last night, I caught a larget cargo and a large tanker running together. I fired a spread that put a torp half a meter under the keel on each one, almost simultaneously impacting. The tanker stopped dead. The cargo limped on, and I had to chase it down and hit it three more times before it stopped. Then I had to hit it again for it to heel over and sink. This took quite a while, as it was dodging all over the place, and the conditions were pretty rough - night, rough seas, rain, and wind. Almost 12 hours had passed by now, and when I went back to the tanker, it was still afloat, decks awash, and not moving. My last torpedo was used, and it finally went down. Is there a way I can speed up the speed at which ships will sink so that I can get on with the game? I'd love to sit and circle the target for a few hours watching it slowly ease into the depths, but I only get a little game time anymore, and I feel I'm wasting it in observation time. I feel like I'm "wasting" torpedos on targets that will sink eventually, if given enough time, but that my outside concerns are impacting the way I have to play the game.

11-13-06, 11:14 AM	#2
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sink times are OK. Don't question them, they are correct in GW. It's more realistic! __________________

11-13-06, 01:07 PM	#3
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	If you do not see it sink you do not get credit for it. Sink times are dead on. A lot of vessels made port while smoking and full of torpedo holes. The only way to know it the ship will sink is sit and wait or come back if she is dead in the water. I stopped a c2 and chased a small coast that was travelling with the c2. I sunk it and returned to finish the job on the c2. I do not know how to change this time to sink. GW has made a mod to compartmentalize the ship like in life. These were air tight via bulk heads. You must not keep hitting the same spot over and over, you must hit in two to three spots. Sometimes you do get that lucky on one torpedo and she sinks quickly. Sometimes you have to fight for the sinking! Oh yeah, if the ship is in bad shape use the cannon to finish it off. Save a torp or two. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-13-06, 08:03 PM	#11
MRV Frogman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 296 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Sink, dammit!!!!!! I just need to vent now!!!! Just torpedoed that damn King George V, she ate 8 (!!!!) eels (no duds) the first got her engines and so she stopped.....I then waited till the flooding took the Rest of her NOTHING!!!! OK, I blasted my last 4 Torps right under her 2. forward Turret, where the Ammo Bunker should be which I hoped would blow up, NOTHING. No explosion and the flooding STILL wasn't enough. I'm using GW......Guys PLEASE ADJUST THAT DAMAGE MODEL!!!! I know that was a Battleship...but.....c'mon......8 TORPEDOES!!!! Even though I edited the Zones.cfg and decreased the critical flooding of almost all ships and increased the critical hit probability, this seems to have no effect at the game. I still need 2 Torps for a 2000-ton coastal merchant everytime! (10. Patrol now). (Its OK for ships to survive more then they should SOMETIMES, but not everytime) I dont mind long sinking times, I mean ships not sinking at all! If you look close enough with the external camera, you'll notice that there is a moment when the ship stops to take flooding and just stays at the surface, I once waited 2 days for a ship to sink, while she hung in the Water about 30 Degrees to starbord with 3/4 of the Deck in the Water....I once ended up having crippled 4 ships like this, no one sunk -> 0 renown. No one would in reality consider this ship NOT destroyed! This simply cant be realistic. So please, tweak this if you can, this is the urgent call for help of a guy who stayed awake longer then planned to sink that damn bucket!! (Cant save and load when a ship is damaged.....you all know why....) Last edited by MRV; 11-13-06 at 08:39 PM.

11-13-06, 09:08 PM	#12
Pants Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Atlantic Posts: 849 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	GW 1.1 uses NYGM's damage model, GWX however uses a whole NEW damage model, re-written from scratch by Von ( damn fine job to ) sinkings are easier ( kind of )..but i'm not going to say too much as the beta testing phase is still on going. __________________ Ex GWX Dev Team member and proud GWX user

11-13-06, 01:16 PM	#4
hyperion2206 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I think it's realistic that bigger and newer vessels don't think so fast, but most of the ships were really old ones dating back to WWI and most of them went down after only one torpedo. I think that should be modeled as well, don't you think? However, don't get me wrong: I love TGW!!!!!!

11-13-06, 04:14 PM	#6
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	You can always try aiming for weak points like just to the rear of the fuel bunkers or on warships in the ammo magazines. This tends to blow the ship apart with one shot. The community wiki has some screenshots with the weakpoints marked.

11-13-06, 01:23 PM	#7
KevinB Planesman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 195 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I have just finished reading a book about the 7th U-Boat Flottilla which states that "some ships went down very quickly, but others remained stubbornly afloat and it was not too uncommon to encounter empty wrecks refusing to sink". So I shouldn't worry too much about them going down as TGW creates the realism, unless you want to use most of your torps and gun ammo. I also think hanging around will have brought back pretty soon as no doubt the merchants would have sent a message.

11-13-06, 01:37 PM	#9
KevinB Planesman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 195 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The publisher is Spearhead and the title is 7th U-Boat Flottilla Doenitz's Atlantic Wolves by Angus Konstam & Jak Mallman Showell. It's only 96 pages but got loads of photos. The website for the publisher is www.ianallansuperstore.com Yes it was worth it but it was in the sale at a third of the price! Actually I've just seen it on Amazon.

11-13-06, 01:29 PM	#10
Wijbrandus Loader Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 83 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	I'm all for realism, that's why I downloaded TGW yesterday. My issue is I don't want to spend my one or two hours of game time an evening waiting for a ship to sink, and using multiple torpedos to sink it is bad for my score. I read in another thread that to make them flood faster you need to poke holes in other parts of the ship. I'll try that tonight. Center shot to stop the ship, and a shot in the bow or stern to help it along, see if that helps. If it works, great. If not, I'll have to consider going back to Vanilla.

11-13-06, 09:19 PM	#13
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Not sure if you are aware the best place to hit almost all warships is in their ammo magazines. Although I've also had some success with hitting light cruisers right between the funnels in their engine rooms. Most Merchies usually go down with one to their fuel bunker. I usually use impact detonators set for between 3 and 7m depending on the targets.

11-14-06, 09:21 AM	#14
MRV Frogman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 296 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	@ TarJak This is exactly what I missed, an increased probability of blowing up ships when hitting in the right place. When not, they may sink through flooding or not, its fine for me. But I saved and loaded in front of the King George V a few times, aiming and shooting at different places (for experiment). I never managed to blow the magazine up, like on the first try with 4 torpedoes fired right INTO the magazine (and ordering flank speed to turn my boat into a ramrod afterwards, with no effect lol) About merchants: Tankers are modelled correctly I think, taking one hit and blowing up, or taking 2 or 3 if empty, because those things are about 10000 tons in displacement, this is OK. What bugs me are the small/coastal merchants, like I said I everytime need 2 eels for them, no exception when I used that DM so far.

11-14-06, 09:27 AM	#15
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Trust me, GWX will deliver in this area too. __________________