Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[NGT]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Still lurking here from time to time.

The fog warning Stiebler mentioned above will be included in forthcoming V15E. also the fix for the crash dive blues and also the external/internal torpedo reload fix (speed restriction during external reload, no external/internal reload when storm, delayed diving).
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@Stiebler: If you don't want to wait, I could tell you how to make your own patch so that you could start testing with others.......it's easy!

h.sie

@h.sie and Stiebler:

If you need help for testing, I am disposable

[Stiebler]

I have now placed a patch (StieblerSR1.7z) for SH3.exe, courtesy of H.sie, onto this link:

http://www.subsim.com/mods1/nygm/StieblerSR1.7z

You will need to make the patch exactly the same way as with H.sie's V15D patches, starting from an *unmodified* version of SH3.exe that lacks Starforce. Instructions available with the download - please read them!

For convenience, the patch contains all H.sie's previous fixes from V15D and his Crash-Dive Blues fix.

Feedback welcome - especially from users of GWX, which I do not test, and whose buoyancy model is different from stock SH3 and NYGM.

I believe that it is going to be necessary to adapt the value of the slow-sinking variable in the mod for each different U-boat type (II, VII, IX, IXD, XXI), but I have not yet done this. One general value is used for all U-boats.

Stiebler.

[LGN1]

Hi Stiebler,

just two short questions:

- Didn't the crew trim the boat slightly positive so that without speed the boat was raising? I think I read something like that before. They did it for safety purposes (you prefer going up over going down if you have problems).

- In real-life you could pump water around in the boat during depth-charge explosions. This seems not to be possible in SH3. So aren't you more punished in game than it is realistic with your patch?

Regards, LGN1

[LGN1]

Hi h.sie,

will it easily be possible to switch off the fog warning? I ask because I guess many players never use TC=1024 and higher and thus, do not need this feature (didn't you recommend to use lower TC because of problems inside the code?).

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

@lgn1:

yupp, every fix can be disabled individually

h.sie

[LGN1]

Hi h.sie,

thanks for the reply and the possibility to switch off the fog warning I hope your real-life issues are not bad issues!

BTW, have you thought about the CO2 issue? Last week I read another report of a Kaleun who did not submerge for too long during his trip through the Bay of Biscay because he wanted to save the Kalipatronen/O2 for his operational area. I'm pretty sure now that the total submerged time during a patrol was limited. In other words, it's quite unrealistic how this is handled in game at the moment and I think, limiting the submerged time over a complete patrol would definitely add an interesting new element to the sim (especially in mid-war when you do not yet have a snorkel and there are already quite a few planes around).

Anyway, I am looking forward to V15E!

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

Hi LGN1,

no bad issues. thanks.

regarding kalipatronen / diving time: I see no chance so far for this idea, because the kalipatronen supply must be stored in the savegame, but I don't know how to store additional stuff. so I can only mod sh3 to have average diving times.

h.sie

[Stiebler]

@LGN1:

- Didn't the crew trim the boat slightly positive so that without speed the boat was raising? I think I read something like that before. They did it for safety purposes (you prefer going up over going down if you have problems).

True, but not when attacking convoys, for obvious reasons - you really don't want your submarine to pop out of the water from periscope depth. There are numerous accounts of U-boats slowing filling up with water while silent-running at deep depths. And then slowly sinking, because the trim was altered.

- In real-life you could pump water around in the boat during depth-charge explosions. This seems not to be possible in SH3. So aren't you more punished in game than it is realistic with your patch?

Also true, but this is a question of degree/extent. The idea of the mod is to force the player to manage silent-running, and not to have it switched on at all times when in the vicinity of warships. The SR mod is not very effective - you will not sink fast, and only when the underwater speed is around 1 kt. But it forces the player to think about the management of this issue. The old 'Aces of the Deep' U-boat simulation mimicked this very well, but SH3 currently lacks the facility completely.

Stiebler.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Hi LGN1,

no bad issues. thanks.

regarding kalipatronen / diving time: I see no chance so far for this idea, because the kalipatronen supply must be stored in the savegame, but I don't know how to store additional stuff. so I can only mod sh3 to have average diving times.

h.sie

Hi h.sie,

good to know that it's nothing serious!

Concerning diving times: I understand that you cannot save any new variable, but one could just use the CO2 variable. It's stored in a savegame. In addition, it's anyway wrong at the moment. It should be constant until you have no O2 left and not rise linearly during being submerged. So, the CO2 dial would just become an O2 dial which decreases linearly during being submerged (showing the O2 supply left).

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

@LGN1: but then we don't have a CO2 level which limits the duration of a single diving. we only have limited the total diving time for the whole mission.

Fader_Berg maybe had a good idea regarding saving. This could work.

Milestones for the next year :

1) Finish V15E. Almost done.

2) Look into negative bouyancy for V15F.

3) Try to save a counter (for kalipatronen) that limits total diving time for whole mission. But I'm pessimistic that it can be done easily.

4) Start to play SH3 and don't accept new ideas .

h.sie

[Magic1111]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@LGN1: but then we don't have a CO2 level which limits the duration of a single diving. we only have limited the total diving time for the whole mission.

Fader_Berg maybe had a good idea regarding saving. This could work.

Milestones for the next year :

1) Finish V15E. Almost done.

2) Look into negative bouyancy for V15F.

3) Try to save a counter (for kalipatronen) that limits total diving time for whole mission.

4) Start to play SH3 and don't accept new ideas .

h.sie

Good steps h.sie !

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@LGN1: but then we don't have a CO2 level which limits the duration of a single diving. we only have limited the total diving time for the whole mission.

Hi h.sie,

sure, we have. It's the oxygen left. Nothing changes there. Your submerged endurance in a single dive would be limited by the O2 (instead of CO2 rising you had O2 in tanks sinking).

As soon as your O2 is used up, it's either surface or game-over. In real life the CO2 should have stayed constant at approx. 1.5-2% until your O2 was used up. Then you had to surface. There was nothing really interesting in the CO2 dial. If it did not stay constant after 3-4h you had a problem.

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Stiebler

@LGN1:

True, but not when attacking convoys, for obvious reasons - you really don't want your submarine to pop out of the water from periscope depth. There are numerous accounts of U-boats slowing filling up with water while silent-running at deep depths. And then slowly sinking, because the trim was altered.

Also true, but this is a question of degree/extent. The idea of the mod is to force the player to manage silent-running, and not to have it switched on at all times when in the vicinity of warships. The SR mod is not very effective - you will not sink fast, and only when the underwater speed is around 1 kt. But it forces the player to think about the management of this issue. The old 'Aces of the Deep' U-boat simulation mimicked this very well, but SH3 currently lacks the facility completely.

Stiebler.

Hi Stiebler,

thanks for the reply! I am just wondering whether in real life it had not been just a matter of blowing a tank (making noise) for just a few seconds to correct the issue

LGN1

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by LGN1

thanks for the reply! I am just wondering whether in real life it had not been just a matter of blowing a tank (making noise) for just a few seconds to correct the issue

Unfortunately blowing a tank for a few seconds isn't accurate. It not only would make a lot of noise (as you said) but could easily overcorrect and make your boat start rising, and you'd have exactly the same problem.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Unfortunately blowing a tank for a few seconds isn't accurate. It not only would make a lot of noise (as you said) but could easily overcorrect and make your boat start rising, and you'd have exactly the same problem.

Yes, sure you would overcorrect. However, it's not exactly the same problem afterwards because sinking slowly at 200+x meters is not the same as rising slowly at 200+x meters. I prefer slowly rising at this depth