Your favorite WWII Aircraft

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've never seen that. On the other hand I've been told that since the 109 was so modular that older version got new wings, new engines and that in some parts of the world there were Bf-109Gs with 'E' factory plates on the fuselage.


Fair enough, though I would like to know more about the 'Me' plates.

A Bf109G with E parts seems kind of odd I wonder if they meant "F" parts.I read that supposedly RLM would refuse paperwork orders for Bf109s if they used Me109 in the paper work this is interesting as it implies that it was referred to Me109 by many in Luftwaffe even at a level high enough to approve work orders to be sent out.


I happen to have picture as a matter of fact notice anything missing?
Clearly these are two 109s produced after Messerschmidt became the company owner.Based On what I can find
it seems that on official paperwork they where to be referred to as Bf109s I don't know if any of that documentation still
is in existence.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I guess you guys are not gear heads like I am I was hoping to hear a little bit about your love for the technical bits you know like guys talking about their hot rods.

for example on the P-38 above did you know that the counter balance on the tail actually did not have any effect? It was thought to help with the loss of control during high speed dives.Kelly Johnson(I hope you know who that is) felt that it was a waste of time and that the issue was caused by vortexing something that was only theory at the time(he was correct) How about the fact that the Allison engines made for the P-38 where specific port and starboard?

Treat it like a question on a job interview for a job where you are the host of a TV show about WWII aircraft. short answers wont get you hired.

Well then allow me to elaborate.

P51-D Mustang was one of the greatest comeback designs of the war, with the assistance of Rolls-Royce Merlin being the final piece of the puzzle that made the P51 come out in flying colors. Just because it's the most cliched aircraft of the war doesn't make it any less fantastic. It had a superb climb rate, and armed with drop tanks the fuel efficient design helped carry these agile and heavily armed fighters right into Germany. It also doubled as an effective CAS fighter-bomber. Not to mention it is simply beautiful.



The B-29 was a very sturdy piece of engineering, and it was a fantastic advancement in aerospace technology, with remote controlled turrets, advanced bomb sights, pressurized cabins (with heating), and a massive payload and range. it's range of 3250 miles was previously unmatched, as was it's bomb capacity of 20000 pounds of bombs.

The SBD Dauntless dive-bombers were the planes that turned the tide in the pacific (whilst not discrediting whatsoever the role of the avengers). It's reliability, ruggedness, great payload, great handling, defensive armament, and success allowed it to still be the dive bomber of choice for pilots after the SBD-2 helldiver was comissioned (the pilots referred to the SBD-2 as the Son-of-a-*redacted* second class because it was a comparably piss poor flyer). Its role in Midway, along with TBF avengers, were incalculable to the success of the U.S military in the pacific.

the F6F Hellcat was not as fast as the F4U, and not quite as manuverable, but it was a monster and a VERY capable aircraft. It was faster than the zero, had a fantastic rugged quality to it, and claimed 56% of all U.S Navy/Marine air victories of the war, attesting to it's qualities as a fighter and a flyer.

Adding on, there's definitely a noteworthy mention of the Nakajima Ki-84 'Frank", the best fighter to see large scale operations for the Japanese during the war. Captured planes showed it to be faster than the P-51 and P-47, and it was comparable to some of the other top allied fighters, and also was able to reach B-29s at their maximum altitude. It was formidable, with 20mm (room for up to 30) cannons and multiple 50 cal machine guns, and design improvements over the oscar, made it a great design and a great aircraft.

The ME-262 was revolutionary in it's jet propulsion technology, and was all around a good fighter with unmatched speed and fantastic armament, though it's impact on the war was too late and it's use was limited by Hitler's vision of it being a bomber rather than a fighter.

the F4U Corsair was pretty much the best fighter aircraft used in WW2. Although i consider it a tie with the P51, it is an outstanding aircraft with a gull-wing design, the ability to be a great fighter-bomber, and it's outstanding qualities as a fighter, very fast, very agile, rugged, dependable, and powerful, it really was one of the best

And of course, i've already explained why the C-47 is important to me, but it's ruggedness, dependability, range, and role in providing the allies with a great transport aircraft make it the best transport of the war. Dropping troops into the enemy's backyard night and day, delivering supplies, commandos, and filling the ever expanding role of paratroopers, while also being the aircraft which my grandfather served in as a flight engineer, i can't help but put it on the list.

And some worthy notations to the 8-ton P-47 thunderbolt, the P-61 black widow, the Vought V-173 flying pancake, the spitfire, and the P-40 Warhawk.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Where does it say 'Me' or 'Bf'?

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Where does it say 'Me' or 'Bf'?

Nowhere that is why I posted them it disproves what many on either side of the BF vs. ME claim as thier prrof of being correct.It does not use either prefix.

Bauart translates directly into English as desgin though I think it means design bureau in German.

The second word scah is an abbreviation as it translates directly as "properly" it most likely means ID/serial number.

The last word is werk or works that is the factory number assigned to the location the plane was assembled and most likely a Julian date or some other form of coding showing the day of completion.



The top one has 227 that date is August 14th 227 only occurs on leap years so august 14 1944.

You will notice that they do not use the same exact coding system either.

the last number in the werk line might also be the number produced the top being the 227th and the bottom one being the 1917th of that given version.Who knows though every manufacturer uses different coding systems and these are each from a different maker.One is "NKF" and the other is "Erla Machinewerk".

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Well then allow me to elaborate.

That was pretty good your hired.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I see your Canadian Spit pose, Jim and raise you my Canadian Spit pose

Nice hair George....I see that B-17 in the background and what might be a F4F or F6F off there to the side...

Is that really you?

If it is, I'm shocked.

Two unexpected appearances by members...CCIP and this creepy picture of Dowly that Tak posted...




*shivers*

[Stealhead]

Yeah that is CCIP he had that super awesome hair in a video he posted of himself firing a Mosin Nagant 91/30 like every good Russian should.He must spend a minor fortune on hair brushes and shampoo.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Yeah that is CCIP he had that super awesome hair in a video he posted of himself firing a Mosin Nagant 91/30 like every good Russian should.He must spend a minor fortune on hair brushes and shampoo.

That is some nice hair...I have to admit...

Give him the Best Of Subsim Hair Award somebody. But he looks a lot different in another pic that was posted on here in that "Subsim Bios, how you found subsim" thread....

This is like seeing your local radio DJ for the first time...that moment when you don't know how to react because you never would've thought that person looked like that.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

That is some nice hair...I have to admit...

Give him the Best Of Subsim Hair Award somebody. But he looks a lot different in another pic that was posted on here in that "Subsim Bios, how you found subsim" thread....

This is like seeing your local radio DJ for the first time...that moment when you don't know how to react because you never would've thought that person looked like that.

I think he cut it that is what he said in the thread with the Mosin video sadly that means that he is no longer eligible for "best Subsim hair.I think that honor should go to Armistead's dog.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

The ME-262 was revolutionary in it's jet propulsion technology, and was all around a good fighter with unmatched speed and fantastic armament, though it's impact on the war was too late and it's use was limited by Hitler's vision of it being a bomber rather than a fighter.

Once they'd gotten around the little nuances like the engines spontaneously detonating if they got a little too hot or if you advanced the throttle too quickly. She was not a great dogfighter either, and attacking bombers was difficult because of the closing speed, with R4M rockets it became a bit easier but like many WWII German weapon projects (thank God) it was too little too late. If you ran into P-51s in a 262, your major advantage was (naturally) speed and avoidance, because if you got drawn into a turning battle, you'd had it. For the Allies though, the 262 was a sod to actually catch once the Luftwaffe figured out how to use it, no prop fighter could keep up with it and if the Luftwaffe pilot didn't want to engage in a dogfight then all you could hope to do was flush them away from the bombers. That's why the Allies put so much into identifying 262 bases and hitting them as much as possible to try to catch the 262s at their weakest moment...landing.

I think the most important thing to come from the 262 was the wing design. Dr Adolf Busemanns theories on swept wing designs and supersonic drag and compression would become common building practice for jet aircraft right up to the present day. When you compare the 262s wings with the Gloster Meteor and the P-80, you can see Busemanns work. He is one of those people who did a lot for modern aviation but whose name is often forgotten. Indeed, I hadn't heard of him until relatively recently when I read a book dealing with British post-war jet designs and how the design of aircraft like the Hawker P.1052 which would later become the Hawker Hunter. Likewise in America, the F-86 was redesigned during its development stage when a flight engineer who could read German read Busemanns reports into swept wing designs, unfortunately for Korean war pilots, the F-86 design was kicked into the long grass until the Soviet MiG-15 which had been designed from captured examples of Busemanns designs, burst onto the scene and outperformed all the straight winged jet fighters in the threatre which were then relegated to ground attack by the swept wing F-86.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

A Bf109G with E parts seems kind of odd I wonder if they meant "F" parts.

I don't know for sure. As I said, I was told that by a friend whom many considered something of an expert on the 109. As I said the aircraft was completely modular. Everything bolted onto the central fuselage section, and any part could be replaced by any other part. Apparently this led to outlying gruppen in need of spares being told those parts couldn't be authorized for older planes, so the local commanders just lied and filled in requesitions for 'G' parts. Again, I haven't seen the actual information, so I can't verify it, but it came to me from a source I trust, and I trust he knew what he was talking about.

I read that supposedly RLM would refuse paperwork orders for Bf109s if they used Me109 in the paper work this is interesting as it implies that it was referred to Me109 by many in Luftwaffe even at a level high enough to approve work orders to be sent out.

I've not heard that either, but it sounds like typical beaurocracy. It also implies that thogh many referred to it by that name official (or just some beaurocrat) policy was to insist on the Bf designation. Probably the latter. General George Kenney of the US Fifth Air Force allegedly threatened to shoot a supply commander for refusing to send parts to front-line units because they didn't fill out forms properly.

I happen to have picture as a matter of fact notice anything missing?

Yep, any reference to factory designation.

Clearly these are two 109s produced after Messerschmidt became the company owner.

Not sure what you mean. Most of them, from the D through the K, were built after the name change.

Based On what I can find it seems that on official paperwork they where to be referred to as Bf109s I don't know if any of that documentation still is in existence.

That was why I insisted. Not that it really matters. I was just because of what I had read. I can definitely be pedantic at times.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

this creepy picture of Dowly that Tak posted...

I'm pretty sure that it was Frau Kaleun who made the picture into a gif with the 'advertising'.

[Sailor Steve]

OH! I almost forgot! As long as we're showing pictures of ourselves with famous planes, did I ever tell you about my time with the Luftwaffe?

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

That was why I insisted. Not that it really matters. I was just because of what I had read. I can definitely be pedantic at times.

Now that is something I am never guilty of...right and pigs fly.
No harm done really I enjoy a good discussion myself.

I was thinking of the change when the design of the 109 was owned by Bayerische Flugzeugwerke originally and then being the property of Messerschmidt after he bought out Bayerische Flugzeugwerke. I assume that a plate on an early 109 would have had "Bayerische FlugzeugwerkenA.G." on the plate in place of Messerschmidt and aircraft designed by ****e-Wulf would have "****e-Wulf A.G." inscribed.

Damn this over sensitive naughty word censor..... F O C K E - Wulf is not a foul word. Unless you are in a B-24 over Europe circa 1943.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Damn this over sensitive naughty word censor..... F O C K E - Wulf is not a foul word. Unless you are in a B-24 over Europe circa 1943.

I hate when you are talking about WW2 Aviation and you bring up the ****e-Wulf.

All the people who can't tell the difference between ****e and (the other word that shall not be mentioned) all gasp until you spell it and explain that it's a fighter plane...

It happened so many times (even in history class when the teacher thought I cussed him out) so I just say Fw-190 Fighter Plane.