Sh3 vs OM

[lhsmithnet]

Pretty simple, how does OM compare to sh3? Please state the obvious as I haven't used the mod but probably will if I get good vibes from the comparison.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by lhsmithnet

Pretty simple, how does OM compare to sh3? Please state the obvious as I haven't used the mod but probably will if I get good vibes from the comparison.

Ahoy, lhsmithnet...

That depends... on which OM are you referring to...

There is the original version, done by lurker.. which is good...

Then...

There is the tweak version that Fifi, started off with... that took what lurker started off with, & did some rework tweaking to... and is good...

Then, there is the 3rd version, again by Fifi.. Operation Monsun: Dark Waters, that further tweaked what they did & went even further with it, to including incorp'ing tkks' work of a 3d real look uboat which, I have to say, looks good in SH4.

That said, again... which 1 do you want an appraisal on.?

M. M.

[Sonicfire1981]

Funny you ask this, as I wanted to make a list myself. First off, I think you don't want to compare a modded SH4 with an unmodded SH3. of course, SH4 looks better than SH3, but when modded - not by that much. there are other differences as well, and maybe we can make a bit of a list as a joint efford.
As almost everything can be modded into / on top of everything, I'd try to focus on single-mod / optional mod- installations.

So you want to drive a U Boat?

*SH3 + GWX*
Grey wolves expansion is the most famous mod for SH3, so famous that it is often used interchangeably / silently asumed that by "SH3" you mean GWX.
+ Tons new ships, units, etc.
+ updated mechanics to make the game more realistic
+ Improved crew management, so that you still have to deal with fatigue, but it's less tedious
+ Cool U-Jagd-tools, RAOBF, Chronometer etc. once you get the hang of it, you don't want to miss them
+ *HARDER ESCORTS* - in GWX its a lot tougher to survive, let alone amass tonnage
+ working snorkel
- Old. I think the last version was made 2012.

*SH3 + LSH*
Living silent hunter just recently had a new version (2020) released, meaning it's still actively being worked on. When it comes to quality, it's certainly at least on par with GWX.
+ Tons of new ships etc. let me point to working water-locks at the Kaiser Willhelm Kanal, complete with flag-signals. going through there with open eyes will also reward you with eyecandy.
+ lots of harbour traffic, radio messages; the world of "living" silent hunter delivers the impression, that it is indeed - a living world, not just the stage for you shooting torps.
- Ujagd tools, RAOBF also implemented, but buggy, unfortunately.
+ optionally no crew fatigue
+ working snorkel
+ Still in active development.

*SH4 + Dark Waters*
I chose this one over Ops Monsoon + OMEGU as it's:
+ still in active development
+ acurate U-Jagd tools (as far as I know)
- snorkel will service the diesels but CO2 will still build up
+ Crew management from SH4 - already divided in shifts, will work and sleep automatically
- all crew members have attributes, mechanic skill, electric skill etc. this is stock-SH4 and too much, IMHO (can remove this bullet in case too many from the community disagree)

*SH5 & wolves of steel*
+ real navigation built in (it's great, immersive and not at all complicated)
+ great tools & lots of scripts (navigating harbours, position keeping etc.
- game wants you to run around the boat talking to people like a first-person-rpg. not everyones cup of tea.
- only Type VII boats available.


okay, enough for a first draft, I will gladly update this once more feedback pours in.

[propbeanie]

Very nice synopsis, Sonicfire1981. One thing to remember about OM & Dark Waters (built on OM) is that a player does not / cannot progress through the boats (no boat upgrades), except for an opportunity to "upgrade" to the Type XXI or XXIII (??). KaleunMarco would have to comment on his experiences there, having been in a Type IIB in the Black Sea when he was upgraded just before the end of the campaign, and then "abandoned" by the BdU... a rather strange occurrence with no plausible explanation as to how the new boat got to the Black Sea... - equipment upgrades work fine, but the turm upgrades also present problems, though there is a "work-around" of sorts.

[John Pancoast]

SH3 + NYGM too.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

SH3 + NYGM too.

Don't know that one, can you whip something together and I'll paste it in.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Don't know that one, can you whip something together and I'll paste it in.

Off the top of my head:

*Sh3 + NYGM*
While being the least graphical pleasing of the bunch it never the less has many positive attributes.
+ Smaller downloads, smaller pc specs. needed to run.
+ Has wolf packs attached to various convoys that automatically activate when the player gets within range.
+ Perhaps the most stable/ctd free of the bunch largely because of the first point.
+ Several historical items included that are missing/have to be added to other mods; CAM ships, wolf packs, MAD Catalinas, i.e.
+ Different types of depth charges.
+ Different visual spotting abilities for different units (i.e., merchant abilities are less than escort).
+ Weather affects escort speed too vs. only the player's boat.
+ Perhaps the "best" Bay of Biscay/Coastal Command modeling though others (especially GWX) are excellent too.
+ Slow sinking model.
+ Crew and crew fatigue model. (though I use Kaa's anyway
+ Damage/repair model.
+ Team member (Stiebler) is the author of books on the u-tankers and the Inshore Campaign and both of these parts of NYGM benefit from it.
+ Relevant files are already edited to work with the H.sie/Stiebler patches.
+ Dud torpedo modeling.
- Graphics for those whom that is important.
- Few "approved" mods though of course, most anything can be made to work with most anything else.
- Confusing installation process for some.
Feel free to combine, etc. as needed.

[Mad Mardigan]

Ahoy, all...

1st off, nice breakdown there, Sonicfire1981 ...

As pointed out by both Sonicfire1981 & propbeanie... there is limitations associated with Operation Monsun: Dark Waters... but, as I understood it, there is plans to do some more rework with it. When & how long, no idea... but will look forward to it, with much anticipation...

Hopefully, will be someone who may yet... figure out the ways & means to straighten out, a proper working ability, to be able to do going from 1 sub to another, as there was & is with SH3... as well as with the U.S. fleet boat side of things with SH4. don't know if there is 1, but... 1 can dream & hope...

The mega, does have the ability for auto crew change outs to occur, that with SH3.. you had to enact & even that, in & of itself... was only in a very tight, limited fashion with SH3, that SH4 is an improvement on. It does have its quirks that crop up every once in a blue moon.. such as when you dive, or heck.. even crash dive this will occur.. of the watch crew NOT disappearing into the boat, regardless if you are using Op. Monsun: Dark or FotRS... not sure about any of the other mega's having that occur.. as it has been some time since I messed about with TMO or RSRD... then of CO2 building up, even after you've surfaced... or the sound of heavy waves & wind howling... well after it having occurred.. ( a quirk of that, happening after using high TC, if I am not mistaken...) that can only be rectified with doing a savepoint... waiting a bit before you exit... & then reloading that savepoint... at least that is what I recall being mentioned somewhere as a means to resolve that happening... with this dusty, ol' cranky HD called a brain... is a wonder I remember My own name some days... what with all the info running around in it...

& that's just a small bit of the fun of running SH4 with mega's that I have mentioned here... am sure there is more than just the 1's I know of...

That's NOT said to dissuade you or any 1 else from wanting to use them, by any stretch...

Hopefully this helps you to better understand the differences( & limitations..) asked about...



M. M.