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Old 12-17-2012, 10:02 PM   #16
Spike88
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Pfffftttt

I'm the quad in the pictures and I sure as hell play computer games. Once loaded and set up, I shoot that rifle on my own.

Most hunters need help hauling the Elk or Moose meat out of the woods so I might argue that they aren't alone either.
I admire you for what you are capable of doing, but my point is that most handicapped don't, or wont. I should not have used the word can't.

If you're hunting boar, duck, quail, deer the average hunter could hunt by themselves. It's still a lot easier for someone to hunt in real life than it is for someone to fly a plane.

Edit: I personally can't fly a plane(at least I don't think I can) as according to MEPS I have no depth perception(I haven't looked more into it).

I also don't mean any offense, so I hope none is taken.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:16 PM   #17
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I also don't mean any offense, so I hope none is taken.
I'm too old and thick skinned to let things bother me so no offense taken, but you really have a poor perception of the desire of the disabled to get out and DO. The ones who haven't the desire to live life to the nth degree usually waste away, so if you see someone who has survived for a length of time, you would probably be very surprised at the amount of things they've found they CAN do.

Rant
This thread was about a hunting sim. At a website dedicated to subsims I'm really surprised at the negativity about it. No sim is a pure sim. It does what it does as well as it can.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #18
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There is a degree of complexity to hunting though. You can't just get a gun, camo, tree stand and go shoot a deer.

You gotta watch the wind, terrain, eating habits, trails, what kind of food is in the area, how the animal avoids predators and how it can detect you. Take normal Whitetail Southern Missouri deer that i'm used to. My hunting ground is a small mountain. If you don't get your wind correct, they'll smell you and you won't see anything all day. If i get my wind wrong, I lay in the rocks at the creek where they cross every night to get to the fields. I bagged this year's deer that way. You gotta watch all the time. They'll walk up out of nowhere.

There is a bit of a learning curve and it looks a lot better on paper than it does in the woods. Ive hunted deer, squirrels, and various birds for years. It is a wonderful sport and i think everyone should get a chance to try it out. Hunting is a great part of America if done correctly. In a game, you don't have to worry about the farmhouse where a man lives with his wife and two kids. This farmhouse happens to be over the horizon or behind the deer somewhere. You have to watch so you don't hit anybody or anything. In a game, there aren't usually other hunters. I had to pass up a deer last year because I saw the bright orange hunter's vest in the area behind the deer. A game won't allow you to shoot other hunters/people. (I have tried in several games just to see if i could.) I have played my fair share of hunting games. I have also shot, tagged, gutted, and eaten several animals of my own. Now, if i was rich, I'd sure as hell jump at the chance to go fly a P-40 over Guadalcanal. I'd jump at the chance to fly in a B-17 over Europe. The fact is, that stuff cost's a whole lotta money that i don't have. So, I settle for a semi-realistic simulator.

If hunting is unavailable to you, by all means play a sim of it. Sailing the waters in a German U-boat is unavailable to us, so we settle for a "close but not quite" representation. If you can't farm, and all you wanna do is farm, by all means, buy the sim.

Simply my opinion. I think computers live for simulation games. I can't get enough of them. I do have some complaints here and there...but overall...I am glad that every once in a while, I can just slap on headphones and pretend to fly a bombing mission over Europe.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:31 PM   #19
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I'm too old and thick skinned to let things bother me so no offense taken, but you really have a poor perception of the desire of the disabled to get out and DO.
That's partially because I have a step-grandfather(I don't know if that's how you'd put the term) who constantly goes on about how he's 100% disabled by the government so he can't do this or can't do that, from the fact that most of our homeless around my area are missing limbs, and from the one or two dealings I've had with handicapped customers at a previous job. This doesn't make my perception right, but It's what I see the most.

However, one of my strongest memories on the matter is from about 3-4 years back. I was leaving a home depot when a man hops out of his white pick up truck, grabs his crutch and goes on with his business in home depot despite missing a leg. That scene has stuck with me since then. I've always admired that man.

As for your rant, the only person being negative about The Hunter is Red October. I've personally looked at it ages ago and thought about getting it(I think I came to the conclusion my computer wasn't up to snuff at the time).

My whole point thus far isn't against Hunting Simulators, I just didn't like the analogy between a hunting simulator and a flying simulator.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #20
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Hmmmm

Electric trigger operated by a sip on the straw\tube. Quadriplegic shooting prairie dogs.
Crippled?
Yes.
Deadly?
Yes!!!!

<photos>

Yeah, yeah, not walking around in the woods stalking, but then........they are 400-500 yard shots!!


The sim is for days when you cannot get out there and do it. The most avid flight sim player I know happens to be an A-10 combat pilot.
Great photos, my friend. Is the young man behind you one of your's?
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #21
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Like you, I also do not care much for highscores in The Hunter. I have simulated a day's roaming by having 3 sessions: From 07 to 11, from 11 to 15, and from 15 to 19. I use to set up a tent now at the end of a session - and starting right there again in the next. That way, I can wander for example from the very North to the very South of - what was the name: Whitesomething Island. Could be done in one session only when running in a straight line. But then you do not see any animals. The forests there are very nice, plenty of underwoods.

But of course I need to adapt to the activity time tables of the species sooner or later. A bear I probably will not get the way I play now, not without setting up a bait some days earlier. those beasts so far have only shown me their backs on two occasions, in another reserve, running, and from great distance. But I got one coyote, from a blind stand, luring.

I think the blind stands, especially the one on the ground and the tripod, are too effective. The callers are too effective, too.

A self-imposed rule I obey is that I do not shoot it if it ain't give me a score, that rules out all female deer already, and female turkeys. But they stay around, and I must avoid making them panicking, else they flee and make the trophy-carrier leaving Dodge, too.

But the best part is to just wander around, looking, staying hidden. It's like a mini-holiday.

Question, by your experience, what do you prefer, the Deer Grunt Caller or the Deer Bleat Caller? I think I so far missed their difference, if there is any. Should attract Blacktail, Whitetail and Mule Deer, but is there a difference between both callers?

Scents I have not used so far.

I hope they are going to implement night time, too.
Scents work just like callers but their effect lasts longer. I do not use them but if you bowhunt it can be effective to move 30 meters laterally (to keep the wind favorable) then waiting. The animal goes to where you put scent down giving you a broadsides shot. It also helps somewhat keeping those pesky does from making a beeline strait to you and ruining your chance at the buck.

Grunt and bleat caller have the same exact effectiveness for all deer. You have no need for both.

Bear at Redfeather Falls can be taken fairly easily without bait, which is overpriced. The other bear map (Settler's Creek) is much more dense in vegetation so much more difficult. Walk high ground along rivers or the marsh areas to the West and North of RFF where you can see long distances.

Shooting does and elk cows has but one purpose for me. They level up your rifles\bows which make them much steadier, and stay steady for a bit longer.

The animals do not really have activity like game trails or bedding areas but they do tend to spawn in some areas more than others. There are maps at the community forum which diagram the more probable areas they spawn. Or just look at another hunter's hunt listing his kills and click on each animal.....then on the bottom right there is a map button which shows a map and exactly where he killed it. Do this enough and you can see patterns.

Good hunting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:43 PM   #22
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Great photos, my friend. Is the young man behind you one of your's?
Yes, my older son, Eric. Would you believe 40 years old now?
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:31 AM   #23
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I am not meaning to call you out on your sim. I am simply voicing my opinion.
@ You, and others,

I have not taken Octobers comment as "calling" at all, nothing personal there, rest assured.

I just think that the criticism you listed is valid for just EVERY simulation on PC. Tactical sims. Racing sims. Flight sims. Or games like Skyrim, Oblvion and the like, too. What you said could be argument to refuse all simulations on PC.

So, everybody: don't make an issue of this, it isn't. As I said: simulating something on PC is all about running head movies. You find the head movie's theme and object interesting and absorbing, or you don't. Some people even buy fishing simulations, garbage collector simulations, and farming simulations. Don'T you never try to hook me on one of these - no chance!

And as I also said: the most compelling of The Hunter is: its visual beauty. That's what stunned me immediately.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:43 AM   #24
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You are in urgent need to link that setup with a tablet with the Leopard's virtual gunner's seat from SBP!

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The sim is for days when you cannot get out there and do it.
That. Or somethign that you will never try in real life at all. Like flying an airliner. Much of the virtual possibilities of modern internet is for that, too. For example Google's museum project (kind of streetview inside some of the world'S most famous galleries).

---

I admit that concerning reality I share Oberon's attitude: hunting only if you eat it yourself and avoid overhunting. I would enjoy the hunt itself - but I would use a camera rifle only. The moment I have ensured that the prey got defeated and the hunting process was successful, the deal is done for me. I do need neither the kill nor the trophy on the wall. And the picture only to silence those who do not believe that I got there. But in principle I do not even need the photo. I have killed just once in my life, a straying dog near our camp in the desert which looked sick, and my concern was that it would bite while we are sleeping, giving us some disease (in that part of the world sick dogs are a concern for sure). Did feel neither triumph nor pity, but did what I think needed to be done. Killing a prey is not what I am about, I'd do it only if needing to eat. For me, it'S the hunt itself - exclusively.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:18 AM   #25
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I admit that concerning reality I share Oberon's attitude: hunting only if you eat it yourself and avoid overhunting. I would enjoy the hunt itself - but I would use a camera rifle only. The moment I have ensured that the prey got defeated and the hunting process was successful, the deal is done for me. I do need neither the kill nor the trophy on the wall. And the picture only to silence those who do not believe that I got there. But in principle I do not even need the photo. I have killed just once in my life, a straying dog near our camp in the desert which looked sick, and my concern was that it would bite while we are sleeping, giving us some disease (in that part of the world sick dogs are a concern for sure). Did feel neither triumph nor pity, but did what I think needed to be done. Killing a prey is not what I am about, I'd do it only if needing to eat. For me, it'S the hunt itself - exclusively.

I would expect a European to think like that. No offense, but hunting is also an American tradition (it's how we control our animal population) and I think there will always be good hunters here in the MidWest. You guys in Europe have had enough war and plague in Europe. I couldn't expect that all of you are armed and shoot animals in your free time.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:27 AM   #26
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There is a degree of complexity to hunting though. You can't just get a gun, camo, tree stand and go shoot a deer.

You gotta watch the wind, terrain, eating habits, trails, what kind of food is in the area, how the animal avoids predators and how it can detect you.
These variables are represented in the sim. They all have a perceivable effect, which can be big or small depending on your behaviour. One could argue whether or not they are correctly matching the real things. I say: they don't. They made it all easier a bit, to not threaten their own customer basis. While the herds of species forming them are of realistic size and composition, they have too many such herds in the given piece of land, I think. But they had to make that concenssion to the gaming market, I assume, most players would not be satisfied like me by just walking around and never see any animal at all.

The species' behavior at different times of the day also is individually tialored and changes. Some species form groups, some even mixed ones, others don'T and stroll as nomands. Others do both. Some species prefer dense woods over the day, and seek open meadows and water only ad dusk and dawn. Some are easy to approach and are not suspecting, others are almost impossible to sneak on wiothout using aids like blinds, lures, and baits. Some species even can turn against you: feral hogs, wild boars, mooses.

Depending on how well you aimed and hit, the animals drops dead in place, or flees, wounded, and you have to trail it. If the wound is severe, it gets only some hundred meters, crisscrossing maybe. If the wound is not so severe - well, two days ago I was spending on hour ingame-time (gametime runs and double speed) to find my first elk I shot. It was almost one and a half kilometer away, still living, but tired, it just stood while I approached. Lesson of the day: for arrows, an elk definitely is too big a prey.

I do not shoot at female deer. That turns the game into a subsim, almost. Avoiding the escorts and not avoiding them while going for the heavy target that might be around. So there you are, sneaking and hiding, being aware of the wind, listening to footsteps and watching out to avoid being detected by the females, which then would flee, alarm the whole group and the antler getting away, too.

I am probbaly sooner or later wil not use scent blockers, special cloathing and blin dsatands, to just make it all more difficult, in parts it is like you say: the functionality you ask for is there, but it is tailored to be too easy, to adress the demands of the game market. But it is like with a lfightsim: you gte what you put into a sim. Plan your flights semiprofessionally, fly realsic routines even if tghe sim doe snot demand them, and the game that FSX by default is suddenly turns into a simulation, and when using a high quality aircraft addon, it turns in to a simnulation with stunning system depth that leaves you clueless at first. Same with many sims, same with The Hunter. The way you approach it definings the experience you get from it.

And do not underestimate the tremendous beauty and sound envrionment that you get! It beats everything I have seen in this rehgard, easily, hands down. On White island, there are forest with so dense underwoods that you are wondering that a PC still can handle that enormnous volume of graphical detail. The chnage of light, mist and fog, sunset and dawning - stunning, simply stunning.

I was in the "German" reserve, trying to go for some red deer. I laid in wait on a hill, looking down on some fields separated with some ditches and bush/treelines. When sun had set, some roes came out from the nearby forest indeed, all females, somewhere a male was calling. I realised that I was too far away, my shooting skill is still low, so breathing still have my sights moving a lot. I started to crawl down, the wind was constantly changing on that day, which had me needing to check it several times, and crisscrossing a bit. While it got darker and darker, I got more and more exposed in the open , crawling from bush to bush, since little embakement lines, maybe 1-2 meters high, blocked vision between the fields, but when climbing on them, would expose my silhouette against the empty sky. I just heared the deer tranmpling around, roaming, and I had no clue what was going on around, and where the boss might be. I finally jumped the time window, and ended up being all alone. But when then cray<wling on a little hill, I saw in my bionos some round, dark spots starting to emerge against the darkness of the forestline on the other side, 200 meters or so away. Wild boars, a while groups, using the protection of almost darkness to check the fields for eatable stuff. I got the buckshot out of the shotgun, and stuffed slugs in. I waited, observed. It was a big family. And finally I got a shot, a good one at around 40 meters. the rest of the group went on stampede, racing as dark, round shadows over the fields and back to the forest. The one I aimed at dropped dead where it was hit.

I play this game carefully, and in a sneaking fashion. I took very long to get there^. And there were surprising twists in the action. And visual beauty all around me, and a great sound environment.

So just nobody should compare this to any other hunting game he happens to know. Ten years ago, I played Deer Hunter 2003, which before Hunter came out as considered the best there is, for years. But it does not compare, it just does not compare. It was simplistic, with smaller places, visually hopelessly inferior. It does not compare.

the Hunter also seems to have a very active and vivid community. The game'S design links every game session automatically to the online leaderboard system and statistics board. Become good enough (will take you much time, promised, for the number's way is a long one), and you will become a known name automatically. Since the game is to be started online exclusively, you cannot avoid being included in this system.

Another detail: stuff you leave in the wilderness, will stay there if you end a session. All equipement like tents and stands, will stay. Sometimes, like any good sim should and must do, things have a abstracted function. Tents for example allow you to not start a new session in one ressort at one of the two lodges only, but at the place where oyu have left your tent last time. Camoping equiment are taking less place in your Rucksack, but allow you to add additional time to your session nwhen yoiu git "tired" (after 10 km or 4 ingame hours), or use one of the twop or three camping sites in the reserves to start from ther next time. And then there are bear barrels. You leave them in a place that looks promising,l and you have to fill them with bait. The bait gets consummed over time, and it will take the animals around several days of real time (!) to realsie the presence of it, to memorize it, and to develope a pattern of frequently chekcing the barrel. You have to check it yourself, too, for the bait gets consummed and can run empty - then you have to fill in new one. Maybe you have also left a high stand or a blind stand close by. So you left a barrel, and four days real time later you start another session, make your way to the place, climb in your stand you left, and hope the place you have choosen for the trap was a good one. Nice, eh?

In Deer Hunter 2003, I recall they even had camera traps.

The five reserves in the game can have a maximum size on either axis of around 6 km. Some are islands.

The game can be tried for free. You have to log an account, and download it (~900 MB). You then have access to one or two reserves, you have one basic rifle and ammo, and the licence to hunt whitetail exclusively. You can already exchange real money for virtual money to buy additional equipment. But for getting access to all reserves, you either by licences for single species in single reserves for 1 day or up to one week, or you buy a membership for up to 1 year. Then you have full access. After that membership ended, you are back to basic visitor mode. But if you buy another emmbership time, you then still have all your bought equipment back, you do not need to buy it again (except items that get consumed: scent sprays, certain special arrows - default ammunition is unlimited and free), but ten shots will take one slot in your rucksack.) Stands and tents and such stay where they are when you left.

I admit the business model of theirs seem to make this an expensive game. But you get quality delivered, really, and you must admit that the constant small cash flow allows them to stay in business and continue ongoing developement, which they do since several years how. There seems to be a constant stream of patches and updates and tweaks and upgrades. Well, people pay 100 dollars these days for SBP, and every 12-18 mouth another 25 for the new upgrade. Compared to that, The Hunter needs several years to reach to that level.

Full access license for all and everything costed me 20 dollars for 6 months. The DVD I got is a Germany-exclusive deal which gave me an equipement costing roughly 20 dollars again (I have not precisely calculated it) - and I do not mean the free equipment you get by default. This is an almost complete package of things, plus half a dozen weapons additional to the default rifle. Needing to buy that in game would cost you an additional 20 dollars or more. So everybody thinking to buy himself into the game: order the DVD via German Amazon. It's a very nice deal within their system.

12 months membership costs I think 45 dollars.

I admit this and the online thing has kept me away for long years. Big mistake of mine. They are also not the only ones doing this model either. iRacing for example plays by comparable rules - and is considered to be the best racing simulation out there, by many.

P.S. the most exotic weapon they have must not be the simple recurve bow, but the civil war style front muzzle loader. Big punch, short reach, miserable precision, one shot only but a long reloading procedure, and plenty of smoke hindering your sight for seconds.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:57 AM   #27
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Does the difficulty change over time? In real hunting season, the deer adapt to hunting season. They get smarter. You gotta outsmart the deer. Like what I do when I lay in the rocks (not comfortable at all) by the creek waiting for them to cross. I use my tree stand until about two in the afternoon and then, I go lay in the rock until about 5:30 when it gets too dark to see. It's a lot like being a sniper for a day.

Fun fact. I woke up and ate breakfast. Now, I look out my back window and there are 2 Does standing in my backyard not 30 feet from where I'm standing in my house. This is normal for me. I'd post a pic but I can't get a picture now because they walked on back into the woods. And it's a bit dark for my iPhone camera.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:00 AM   #28
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Scents work just like callers but their effect lasts longer. I do not use them but if you bowhunt it can be effective to move 30 meters laterally (to keep the wind favorable) then waiting. The animal goes to where you put scent down giving you a broadsides shot. It also helps somewhat keeping those pesky does from making a beeline strait to you and ruining your chance at the buck.
Ah, the does-after-scent thing I need to remember.

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Grunt and bleat caller have the same exact effectiveness for all deer. You have no need for both.
Thought so, but was not certain.

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Bear at Redfeather Falls can be taken fairly easily without bait, which is overpriced. The other bear map (Settler's Creek) is much more dense in vegetation so much more difficult. Walk high ground along rivers or the marsh areas to the West and North of RFF where you can see long distances.
Will check. Saw only one or two bears so far, and they all were already running away from me. Pretty much alarmed they looked to me, like coyotes.

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Shooting does and elk cows has but one purpose for me. They level up your rifles\bows which make them much steadier, and stay steady for a bit longer.
I did not think of that. Yes, the gunnery skill statistics. Okay, from now on I massacre everything that moves.

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The animals do not really have activity like game trails or bedding areas but they do tend to spawn in some areas more than others.
Well, I could swear so far that deer and wild boars tend to avoid open places at day and hide in thicker forests over midday, and go for meadows and fields at dusk and dawn. I also have not seen pheasants and turkey close to darkness, but only over the day. I also realised that some deer species - and I also read that - form different herds - some more mixed, others separate females from males, and other species tend to stay more alone and roam as nomads. The level of nervousness and alertness (which can also be pobserved in the binoculars, their body language) also is described to be different between species.

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There are maps at the community forum which diagram the more probable areas they spawn.
Thank you, I already had them. BTW, thy are not complete, in same places I spotted species that were not marked. But okay. I prefer to find that out myself anyway. I printed the maps just to have the orientation reference. I pays off to spend several sessions in a row in one and the same reserve, I would say.

Thanks for the input!
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:18 AM   #29
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Does the difficulty change over time? In real hunting season, the deer adapt to hunting season. They get smarter.
I strongly assume not in the way you mean. But I read in their Wiki (the German one, which is far more complete and professionally done than the English one) or one forum post that there is one difference: antlers tend to become more and more cautious the higher their score is, meaning they tend to not follow or respond to lure calls, and get alarmed by repeated lure calls more easily than bucks with low score. That, so they write, should reflect that the higher score antlers (bigger scalp...) became older only by having become more experienced.

Also, the difference between scents and calls that Riock just explained. Calls lure them to your calling position if they hear it, scents call them to the scent's position, once the animal got inside the range of it. You can win distance to that place meanwhile.

The German Wiki, explaining all and every detail, statistic item, skill system, gadget, equipment, weapon, species, traces, droppings - everything.

http://de.thehunterwiki.com/index.php?title=Hauptseite

Traces have been simplified, they had to, because it is unrealistic in a sim on a screen that you bend down and move that grass aside to find some footprints there, it cannot be done like that in a sim. That's why they are assisted by visual clues that are skill and range dependent. Footprints an reveal species, and behaviour mode (roaming, fleeing, wounded)

I also recommend to use Google picture search for screenshots. The game looks best early in the morning and late in the evening, when shadows are falling or are still there. The landscape from hills can be watched at estimated distances of up to 4 or 5 kilometers (with trees still being displayed), however, animals appear only at around 200 or 250 meters, which in forests, underwood, high grass and in hilly terrain is absolutely okay. Only the open, flat marsh-country has them appearing a bit to sudden at that distance - if the air is clear and no mist around.

Note that there have been many upgrades, dozes, apparently. I noted that older screenshots do not represent the density of visual details (grass, underwood) possible in newer game versions. I run my game at maximum settings with 2x AA and 2x AF. (i5 2500, 8 GB, GTX 460 SE 1 GB). the screenshot function (a digital camera in your rucksack) currently is somewhat broken and allows only 640 resolution pics. It's on their fix-list. It was fully functional some time ago, I read. That'S why I post no screenies myself, Due to the online-nature of the gamescreen (runs from and in your browser), screengrabbers do not work for me so far, they always only snap up the gamestart screen.

I'm out of here for the remaining afternoon.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:59 AM   #30
CCIP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red October1984 View Post
I guess whatever floats your boat. I am just vividly saying that hunting "sims" aren't realistic. Flight sims and subsims aren't realistic either. I'm saying that there can't be a sim that is like real life.
Just wanted to make a nitpick here - you shouldn't confuse "real" and "realistic". Those are two different words for very good reasons. A sim can definitely be "realistic" - there many different versions of "realism" out there, all of which really boil down to how well a game convinces the player that what they are doing is plausible and applicable to the real world. Realism is not reality, it's just a really good, believable representation of it.

Just a pet peeve of mine, though usually because of the opposite reason (when people start arguing that because they play a "realistic" simulator, they really know the "real" thing)
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