[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[taktik]

First of all, I love the TMO2.5 mod, which I have played almost exclusively.

Taking the new release of FOTRSU for a spin, and I didn't get but about thirty minutes in it (and no engagements yet) before the wife and kids pulled back into the driveway, but GOSH GOLLY does the scenery look more beautiful than ever. Honestly, if I don't find a jap ship for the first month or so, I think I could just walk around the inside of my shiny boat and admire the sea from the bridge and not feel out of sorts at all.

Having not even scratched the surface of it yet, I can see the hard work that went into this already, and I have to say AWESOME JOB to the hardworking sub simmers who worked on this project! Looking forward to taking her out again soon, with more time on my hands!

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by WH4K View Post
I've seen that too. Sometimes I can only get to about 80% original capacity.
I figure it's battle damage & head home as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Best course of action. When at sea, you should never be able to do a complete repair on batteries... However, we need propbeanie to confirm either way...

i am not PB but i can confirm that when there is any damage to the batteries, they will not repair back to 100% during a mission.

battery damage is like hull damage: a kaleun must return to his home base and end the patrol in order to fully repair either one of them. stopping for a weapons reload will not repair batteries or hull damage (or destroyed equipment).

on a side note, i have been in both forward and aft battery rooms of a WWII US sub. they are located a level below the normal deck and are accessible via only one vertical steel ladder. the grate over each hatchway weighed at least 100 lbs. each room would be crammed with batteries (54hx21wx15d) and have very little room for humans to maneuver. lighting is in the form of protected incandescent bulbs which only made a warm space even warmer. it is hard to verbalize the claustrophobic feeling one gets even when visiting a battery room...and then try to imagine having to go down there, holding a lantern in one hand, while you are underwater (condensation dripping) and being depth charged...trying to figure out what the problem is before actually fixing it. a daunting task to say the least.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

First off, kudos for the colorful sonar lines - greatly appreciated!

Second, the AI boost (both mods) is a very welcome improvement. Encountering a certain TF in mid-December 1941 is suddenly interesting again after the first salvo impacts. The following ships still slow down but are more evasive and the DDs are now a threat.
The ships slowing down is an SH4 thang unfortunately. The higher the skill level, the better they act, but the better they "see" also, so...
Oddities:
- For the first time in my entire SH4 career, the seas have been too rough for almost all gunnery action. One crab boat actually sank before we could reach it and the Large Tanker we encountered next had its port rail almost submerged. A single torpedo was enough to sink it. Conditions are similar on the second patrol, although with one calm period to demonstrate its not a permanent environmental change.
Rough seas will sink battleships even. Damages accrue over time. Did you get a weather report though? Storms, just like glassy seas, can get "stuck". TC being the biggest offender, but Saves also re-set the "weather clock". Another SH4 thang.
- Once in each patrol, the sub has stopped at a plotted turn at high TC for no obvious reason. I haven't seen that before.
Which boat, approximate date, where did you sail from, and where you at the time?
- On one Single Mission and one career patrol, we were in extremely close range and taken under fire before the ships were sighted. I realize this may be related to the single sensor issues PB has mentioned before, although the enemy TF in the Single Mission didn't spot us early either as they didn't fire until we were within 1000 meters.
Same "Which boat, approximate date, where were you", questions, but this time, "which single mission?"
- CTDs are cropping up in the second patrol but in an entirely new manner: the game/replay loads, begins to play for a couple of seconds, then CTDs. Always before it simply fails to load. At this point I can only assume my recurrent CTD issues are Win10 Pro related.
Game Replays are resource hogs, and will add considerably to the size of your Save folder. Are you doing them on a Single Mission, or a Career?
Thanks to the entire team for your hard work.

Thank you

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I do not believe I was ever spotted. I akways dive to 100' upon receiving a radar warning from the crew. Most of the crashed planes were US Wildcats, with some P40's in the mix, and just a few Japanese, Zeros I think. There were also numerous "survivors", all on land, some showing the pink flares. Japanese "survivors" tended to be on the South side of the West end of the island.

The traffic built slowly over 3 or 4 days, from a plane or two per hour in daylight only to a crescendo of traffic day and night in both directions (to and from Henderson in a NW and NNW direction). Even when at 100' depth, the volume of passing planes overhead was enough to drop the TC to 8x regularly. To get any TC at all (in hopes of getting past a "bubble" in the traffic volume) I had to go to almost 300'. But eventually I have to surface to clean the air, with a repeat of the traffic volume. I had to leave on November 6 to preserve my sanity, still without encountering any surface traffic, day or night. I had been on station just north of Savo Island and in the channel between there and Guadalcanal (is that Iron Bottom Sound?) since late September, hoping for some action. Never saw another ship, US or IJN. That also seems strange, given the historical events of the time.

There were indeed night "dogfights" and attacks performed by the Japanese, usually without benefit of radar. Their favorite tactic was to attack just after surface sundown, but with the airplanes being above the horizon, they could see OK with the ambient light for the start of the attack run. The US used radar for night engagements for the first time around Guadalcanal, and it seems to me it was late 1942. The planes did not have the radar, a nearby ship or base did, and guided the planes by radio. However, night attacks were generally rare.

In the game, once an airplane is aloft ("spawned"), it stays there until it is done, either range or ammo being the "normal" dictator. So therefore, night attacks are not as rare in SH4. If you look at the night attack multiplier in the AirStrike.cfg, for FotRSU, that is set to 0.46, lower than stock. Don't forget the AirBase "experience" level modifier, and whether you have sent any radio messages, or if you have been seen, all of which can increase the odds of an airplane coming as a "response"... You should NOT have a mess of airplanes on the hillsides. Why airplanes can't gain altitude in SH4 to clear a hill is beyond me. You will see the fluorescent flares, because that's what survivors do, even if on land, but those are what drag the game down, so we want to avoid airplanes crashing into the mountains... I can only guess, because I have not managed to replicate the issue on my system yet, but similar to what others encountered off the coast of Japan, we are getting an inappropriate response to Japanese ships - I think - because I have gone up the slot closer to Shortland in early November, and I am seeing quite a few B-25s, Wildcats, and PBYs coming out and attacking the Tokyo Express... so we'll noodle some with the American Airbases, and try to calm that response down. This might also explain why surface traffic is light, because I watched as about six B25s took out a small Task Force (one CL and about 4 DD) in less than five minutes...

Originally Posted by WH4K

Sigh. Just upgraded to a Balao. No deck gun. Didn't lose deck gun (or any crew) on old boat, it's that the new boat simply didn't come with a deck gun, and one can't be added.

Fixed in 1.24?
Doesn't need fixing - something else is going on

Maybe I should go back and refuse the boat upgrade.

Refuse the boat upgrade. I am running about a half-dozen test careers right now, and have not encountered airplanes at night around Savo yet, nor not getting a deck gun with a boat upgrade. I do have more sessions planned of course, and we'll keep after it. But once you have bad data in a Save folder, that whole folder is corrupted, "data" on down...

Originally Posted by nionios

I have noticed that sometimes after the complete repair of damaged batteries they do not recharge at 100%. Recharging usually stops at 99% or even lower. I don't know whether it's a FOTRSU related issue or not. Maybe it is intentional. I have also played other mods (RFB , TMO , OPMONSUN) and I can't recall any similar issue.
As s7rikeback mentions, it is like bulkhead and especially hull damage, in that you are never 100%% afterwards. Under some circumstances, I have had the batteries deteriorate rapidly after a few days, and almost been stuck in the middle of the Pacific...

The 999_DC_NBB_sil mod is obligatory for v1.24?

No, not obligatory at all. It is the updated silhouette files for the battleships in the Recognition Manual. All - and that is a LOT of "all" - of the ship silhouette files in FotRSU are now courtesy of DanielCoffey, as well as the update cfg file figures that you see.

Originally Posted by WH4K

No, I only use FOTRS:UE by itself. No other mods.

Just for fun, I'm going to use JGSME to remove FOTRSU 1.21p, and install 1.24, then see what happens.

Making a backup of my savegames first.

BTW, 1.21p has been SUPER stable, remarkably so. I haven't had it CTD even once, not even in areas I was accustomed to expecting a CTD when trying to load a recent save.

v1.24 is v1.2 with all of the patches, except the one we are building now. The next version of the mod will incorporate some changes that will make it incompatible with the v1.24 (and any mods). But from v1.2 through the v1.21p02 (or was it "03"??), we made no changes to the submarines or deck guns, other than re-mapping IDs for the Narwhal... We did change the Shinano, but it wasn't "called" by the game... - we'll keep testing though, and try to track something down. In the meantime, as mentioned, once you have corrupt data, you have corrupt data. So go back prior to docking and getting the upgrade, and refuse the upgrade. Then do the v1.24 while in the office, and go back out on patrol.

One thing to remember about these issues though, is that in order to facilitate chasing things down, we need

1. The submarine you have, and the one you're getting
2. Your home port, where you sail from
3. the situation
4. the date
5. Your mod list.

Originally Posted by taktik

First of all, I love the TMO2.5 mod, which I have played almost exclusively.

Taking the new release of FOTRSU for a spin, and I didn't get but about thirty minutes in it (and no engagements yet) before the wife and kids pulled back into the driveway, but GOSH GOLLY does the scenery look more beautiful than ever. Honestly, if I don't find a jap ship for the first month or so, I think I could just walk around the inside of my shiny boat and admire the sea from the bridge and not feel out of sorts at all.

Having not even scratched the surface of it yet, I can see the hard work that went into this already, and I have to say AWESOME JOB to the hardworking sub simmers who worked on this project! Looking forward to taking her out again soon, with more time on my hands!

Thank you for the compliment, but quite a bit of that work was done by the FOTRS original AOTD_MadMax team years ago, and they started with TMO 1.7

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me View Post

- Once in each patrol, the sub has stopped at a plotted turn at high TC for no obvious reason. I haven't seen that before.
Which boat, approximate date, where did you sail from, and where you at the time?

The second one was on Trout's second patrol from Midway, approximately March 1942, near Convoy College. The first one was either on Trout's first (Bungo Suido) in Jan 1942, or early in the very lengthy second (Area 4 or Haha Jima).

- On one Single Mission and one career patrol, we were in extremely close range and taken under fire before the ships were sighted. I realize this may be related to the single sensor issues PB has mentioned before, although the enemy TF in the Single Mission didn't spot us early either as they didn't fire until we were within 1000 meters.
Same "Which boat, approximate date, where were you", questions, but this time, "which single mission?"

Bungo Suido or On the Move. Probably the former, but unsure. The career patrol was Trout's second, this time assigned to Convoy College (the NE one of the two we had this patrol).

Game Replays are resource hogs, and will add considerably to the size of your Save folder. Are you doing them on a Single Mission, or a Career?

Career.

[propbeanie]

Got it... what is your mod load-out though? As for the stopping at a turn in TC, how high of TC were you using (512, 1024?), and what did you do to get it to go again, or was it like a "glitch", where it paused for a flash, and then continued on?

[mikesn9]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Got it... what is your mod load-out though? As for the stopping at a turn in TC, how high of TC were you using (512, 1024?), and what did you do to get it to go again, or was it like a "glitch", where it paused for a flash, and then continued on?

I have had this happen in Fotrsu 1.1 and 1.1 with patch.
Last time was a balao out of Brisbane. east china sea. TC 1024 (my normal patrol setting) Sept '43. Win '64. NOT at battle stations, traveling on surface.
I checked to see if I had run into anything. no. props running speed 0.
Rang up All Stop, then Standard, ship started moving again.


Mios, thanks for posting.. I had thought of asking if anyone else had seen this.

[propbeanie]

I was going to mention Battle Stations, but one important aspect is the shelling out to Windows, which seems to be one of my favorite "go-to" excuses, but really can affect all aspects of the game, including contributing to bad data in Save files. Not that either of you did that, but just to over-state the obvious. So the telegraph actually goes to All Stop, and it's not just a "glitch" kicking into the display of the game... I've added that (watching for stops) to a "watch list" of things to look for in my testing procedure, especially in light of all of the TC I use doing the tests, being at 4096x just as often as being at 128x - all in the name of "science".,.

[maxswain]

I have large smoke plumes that follow the sub submerged or on the surface. I've never seen this before.

[mikesn9]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I was going to mention Battle Stations, but one important aspect is the shelling out to Windows, which seems to be one of my favorite "go-to" excuses, but really can affect all aspects of the game, including contributing to bad data in Save files. Not that either of you did that, but just to over-state the obvious. So the telegraph actually goes to All Stop, and it's not just a "glitch" kicking into the display of the game... I've added that (watching for stops) to a "watch list" of things to look for in my testing procedure, especially in light of all of the TC I use doing the tests, being at 4096x just as often as being at 128x - all in the name of "science".,.

In my cases the Telegraph was still at standard, making 0 knots. I selected stop, standard to get it started again. I had not shelled out to windows.. I have a reminder program that pops up once in a while, but if it happens, I save & exit, or just exit if a save was recent.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Got it... what is your mod load-out though? As for the stopping at a turn in TC, how high of TC were you using (512, 1024?), and what did you do to get it to go again, or was it like a "glitch", where it paused for a flash, and then continued on?

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Games\steamapps\common\FotRSUE\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_UltimateEdition_v1.21p_EN
301_MoreDifficultAI01
302_MoreDifficultAI02
399_NoScrollNavMap
452_MoonlightzSonarLines
901_Strategic_Map_Symbols

TC was probably ~2000-4000 as these were dead patrol zones (at least on Patrol 2). I hit the return to course button once more and it behaved normally afterward. The plotted courses were fairly complex search patterns and each failed on the first turn. Each instance cost several hours of game time.

Now that you mention the possibility of a glitch correcting itself, I seem to recall that happened once. It was as if the sub had dropped out of warp/paused on a turn (or was spinning in place), then went back to the selected velocity. If I'm correct, that happened on Trout's Patrol 1 in the Bungo Suido in Jan 1941, meaning that the two instances of complete stoppage were on Patrol 2 (Haha Jima/Area 4 and Convoy College in March 1942).

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by maxswain

I have large smoke plumes that follow the sub submerged or on the surface. I've never seen this before.

it's a known issue.

it will not affect your detection by the enemy AI.

i forget what the actual reason is.

best bet: just ignore it.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by maxswain

I have large smoke plumes that follow the sub submerged or on the surface. I've never seen this before.

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

it's a known issue.

it will not affect your detection by the enemy AI.

i forget what the actual reason is.

best bet: just ignore it.

As KaeunMarco mentions, though odd, it does not affect the enemy's ability to ignore your submarine. However, the only known way to get that to happen is by "shelling-out" to Windows, whether accidentally or on purpose. The game is an old WinXP game, and as such "knows" nothing of virtual computing, and expects the computer to pay attention to it, and to it alone. When the computer shells back to the desktop or another app, SH4 loses the "focus" and some of its assets might not be in the exact location as they were when the game lost focus, hence some areas of the game's space are over-written, resulting in some "glitching". The "fix" is to create a Save point under a new name, exit the game, re-start the game, and load that Save you just created.

Originally Posted by mikesn9

In my cases the Telegraph was still at standard, making 0 knots. I selected stop, standard to get it started again. I had not shelled out to windows.. I have a reminder program that pops up once in a while, but if it happens, I save & exit, or just exit if a save was recent.

Depending upon the reminder applet, if it "polls" the computer, it might shell-out in the background, and you might never notice it. It would be better to temporarily halt it when playing SH4, and see what happens. Put it back if it makes no difference, of course.

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Games\steamapps\common\FotRSUE\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_UltimateEdition_v1.21p_EN
301_MoreDifficultAI01
302_MoreDifficultAI02
399_NoScrollNavMap
452_MoonlightzSonarLines
901_Strategic_Map_Symbols

TC was probably ~2000-4000 as these were dead patrol zones (at least on Patrol 2). I hit the return to course button once more and it behaved normally afterward. The plotted courses were fairly complex search patterns and each failed on the first turn. Each instance cost several hours of game time.

Now that you mention the possibility of a glitch correcting itself, I seem to recall that happened once. It was as if the sub had dropped out of warp/paused on a turn (or was spinning in place), then went back to the selected velocity. If I'm correct, that happened on Trout's Patrol 1 in the Bungo Suido in Jan 1941, meaning that the two instances of complete stoppage were on Patrol 2 (Haha Jima/Area 4 and Convoy College in March 1942).

One thing I have had happen, and this is in Stock, TMO, etc... but under certain set-ups of "navigating" with player-designated waypoints, with criss-crossing and / or circular routes, the submarine's "navigator" does seem to get confused sometimes as to where to go. When I have zoomed-in, the sub is doing its set speed, but is circling... I have not proven anything, and I don't know yet what the circumstances might be, such as maybe a lot of acute angles, or routes that cross-over themselves? But I'll try some of that with these tests also... If you happen to have that happen again, zoom-in on your sub on the NavMap, and see if it is "spinning in-place", or if the boat is actually All Stopped. You might also have to break-out the axle grease supply, and grease-up the er... rudder...

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

One other thing though, and that is the "Why on earth are there three Shokakus there?" question. There are no Shokaku in the FotRSU BOM file, only the Kaga, Akagi, and two Hiryu to represent the Hiryu and Soryu. No Shokaku... in dry dock for Coral Sea damage repairs... The Stock game has 3 Shokaku in it though... so, where did you find that BOM file?... hmmm... ?? lol - You might well have a corrupted Save folder, or only a partial activation of the mod.

By process of elimination, i seem to have a(nother) partial mod activation. You've seen my functioning mod list above and I've discussed elsewhere the various approaches I've taken to fully delete all traces of SH4, Steam, and the Save folders and then do a clean install as well as create a RotFSU directory.

However....

I just loaded the Single Mission Battle of Midway and there were those bloody Shokaku CVs.

I suppose this could also explain the odd CTDs when trying to load two Patrol 2 saves.

How can I ensure a full mod activation?



EDIT:

Anything SMXX is a Stock mission, left untouched by us for the most part, save to make the ship calls FotRSU compatible.

I had read this as meaning that the ship classes were updated. Was that incorrect?

[propbeanie]

The Single Mission version of the Battle of Midway was only "made compatible" for FotRSU, and we did not mess with any of the ship calls or the "timing" of events, so seeing multiple Shokakus in it is way it is written and plays. The BOM in the career has been more-accurately scripted, and does carry the proper (almost) ships. Shokaku and Zuikaku were back home licking their wounds from the Battle of the Coral Sea.

As for a "clean" Steam game, what I finally did with my SH3 game was to deactivate my mods, selected the MODS folder and used <Ctrl><X> to cut it, then pasted it outside of the Steam folder for later use. I then logged into my Steam app on the computer, and validated the game files, which basically will download a "fresh" Steam version of the game. I then went and worked around the house for a while, stopping by to check on things every once in a while ( ) once the validation process was complete, I then navigated into the Steam / SteamApps / Common / SH3 folder (my particular path) such that I had Data, Support, etc folders, as well as all of the dll and act files visible. I then used <Ctrl><A> to "select all", and then <Ctrl><C> to copy all. I then went up one level to the common folder, and created a new folder (in this case, it was for GWX). I went into that folder and did a <Ctrl><V> and pasted it all into the GWX folder. I then did <Ctrl><A> again to select all, and then right-clicked in the selected area, bringing up the Windows context menu, which I have 7-Zip on, and select "7-Zip --> Add to archive", and named it "SH3Pristine" and got up and walked away for a bit while 7-Zip created my pristine SH3 set of files. When that completed, I cut the zip file and put it in it's own folder off of the Games folder for easy access, as well as copying it elsewhere, and backing it up to DVD-R. I then left the Steam install alone, and modded the copy of the Steam install. When I experiment with another mod, I use the "SH3Pristine" copy, create myself another folder off of the common folder, and paste the archive to it, uncompress it, and I have another copy. With the use of MultiSH3, I have a separate Save folder for each of my copies of my Steam SH3. I can then mod them, and then add them to the Steam Start with "Add non-Steam game to the Library" if needed for licensing (my Win10 laptop requires that). btw, when you go to re-use a MODS folder, be sure and delete the JSGME.ini file in there, as well as the hidden folders "!BACKUP" and "!INSTLOGS"... it might be easier to just copy the mods out of the safe-kept folder, leaving the JSGME files behind...

I tried the same with SH5, and it does not function correctly... sigh... my SH4 Ubisoft UPlay version does though. The one part about the Steam SH4 I am not certain about of course, is that you have to have "Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific ~and~ U-Boat Missions Add-On in order to have an SH4 v1.5 to mod, and I'm not certain how they (Steam) handle that. I have heard that they are both in the same folder, but use a different short-cut on the Steam menu, so I am not sure this would work for SH4, but it should...

The use of MultiSH4 and a different name for the Save folder helps immensely. I have several SH4 copies, each with their own FotRSU mod of various versions and stages of modding, and one is FRE, another FRS, a third FRU, etc., such that they never "cross paths" with each other and thus do not cross-contaminate each other... I do also have TMO, Ralles, RFB, etc. on the computer also, so I am not completely FotRSU-centric. Close maybe...

[Moonlight]

I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen Mr beanie but, I decided to accept a Midway Gato on the 29th November 1942 and all I was given with it was a basic loadout of a .50 Cal, 3" Deck Gun, SD Radar and no SJ Radar.

I installed a 20 mm AA Machine Gun, a 4" Deck Gun, SJ Radar, and Improved SD Radar.

No problems encountered so far after 5 patrols.