TM2.0 BH and ship keel depth issues

[mjv96]

Having a bit of a problem with the listed ship keel depths and my torps running under ships regardless of the depth I have them set to or the type of contact used. I took shots at 2 tankers sitting in a harbor, they were clear shots with nothing in the way of the torps. Regardless of settings, my torps always went under the ships. One ship had a draft depth listed as 9ft and the other 15ft. Even setting them to run at 5 ft, the torps just go straight under the ships (both). Any ideas?



I'm running the following mods (wish I could attach a pic as I don't use website storage for pics): Trigger Maru Overhaul 2.5 Update BH V2.0; Nav Map Make-Over TMO Update 2.0; NMMO Patch TMO Update V2.0; EAX_Clang_Splash_Dud for TMO Update; AAtoDeckguns+Radio; DecoysTMO; EAX_splash_clang_TMOV2.0; GatoLadder3; Radio Messages TMO Update 2.0; Captain Midnights MORE CBS NEWS! MOD v1.2; AlliedShipsTMO; ShipsforTMO (and that is also their load order).

[propbeanie]

You can get a list of your mods with JSGME "Tasks..." in the middle gutter, then "Generate activated mods list to -->" and choose either "Clipboard" or "File". One thing to remember about the TMO version of the mod is that the US torpedo problem is modeled strongly in it (read the "Controversy" section and down from there), and more so with Bubblehead19080's version.

btw, belated "Welcom to SubSim" mjv96! Aktungbby will say "nice initial silent run!"

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by mjv96

Having a bit of a problem with the listed ship keel depths and my torps running under ships regardless of the depth I have them set to or the type of contact used. I took shots at 2 tankers sitting in a harbor, they were clear shots with nothing in the way of the torps. Regardless of settings, my torps always went under the ships. One ship had a draft depth listed as 9ft and the other 15ft. Even setting them to run at 5 ft, the torps just go straight under the ships (both). Any ideas?

yes, to fix this one needs to edit both the .cfg and .sim files and make sure that the draft is the same value.

.cfg needs a regular-old-text editor such as Notepad.
.sim requires something like Skwas' Silent 3ditor tool.

and as PB indicated, you should also post your config: Jsgme-Task-Export to Clipboard and then paste into a post here (ctrl+v).

[mjv96]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You can get a list of your mods with JSGME "Tasks..." in the middle gutter, then "Generate activated mods list to -->" and choose either "Clipboard" or "File". One thing to remember about the TMO version of the mod is that the US torpedo problem is modeled strongly in it (read the "Controversy" section and down from there), and more so with Bubblehead19080's version.

btw, belated "Welcom to SubSim" mjv96! Aktungbby will say "nice initial silent run!"

Thanks there propbeanie. i actually was here though many, MANY years back when SH IV first came out. Used to post all the time and used to enter into those various screen shot competitions. My fav pic was of a zero flying over, about to drop a bomb with the constellation of Orion behind it...I think i called it "by orion's belt" or something like that. Anyway, something wonky happened to my account and it had to be recreated i guess. either way, i'm starting to play sh iv again and just trying to get it setup correctly. I don't mind the historical aspect, that's all good i just hate that no matter what, my torps always seem to run WAY underneath a target, regardless of the setting.



@KaleunMarco - That sounds like a lot of work and something I might only do as a last resort, but at least you've given me the know-how on what I might have to do if it comes to that.



I'll likely just do a uninstall and then a fresh reinstall of the game since i still have the cd and the cd key. That might help.


as for the jsgme file, here it is.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Games\SH4\MODS]

Trigger Maru Overhaul 2.5 UpdateBH V2.0
Nav Map Make-Over TMO Update 2.0
NMMO Patch TMO Update V2.0
EAX_Clang_Splash_Dud for TMO Update
AAtoDeckguns+Radio
DecoysTMO
EAX_splash_clang_TMOV2.0
GatoLadder3
Radio Messages TMO Update 2.0
Captain Midnights MORE CBS NEWS! MOD v1.2
AlliedShipsTMO
ShipsforTMO

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by mjv96

Thanks there propbeanie.

..... I don't mind the historical aspect, that's all good i just hate that no matter what, my torps always seem to run WAY underneath a target, regardless of the setting.



@KaleunMarco - That sounds like a lot of work and something I might only do as a last resort, but at least you've given me the know-how on what I might have to do if it comes to that.



I'll likely just do a uninstall and then a fresh reinstall of the game since i still have the cd and the cd key. That might help.


as for the jsgme file, here it is.

good job on the JSGME Config!

on the torps running deep issue...they will always run deep on targets that have keel depth out of sync.

what happens if you play the game with the Game Option of Dud Torpedos unchecked?

secondly, have you ever attacked and set your torpedoes for Contact exploder rather than magnetic?

lastly, have you ever attacked and set your torpedoes for shallow depth, say, 5 feet for example?

[propbeanie]

... But don't forget that there are two places to set the "Dud" thang... one on the Main Menu under Options, Gameplay settings, and the other in the Captain's Office in-port, by clicking on the radio console to the left of the desk, and choosing the same Options, Gameplay Settings.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

btw, belated "Welcom to SubSim" mjv96! Aktungbby will say "nice initial silent run!"

mjv96.... finally on the surface after 5 years 'silent running"

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mjv96

Having a bit of a problem with the listed ship keel depths and my torps running under ships regardless of the depth I have them set to or the type of contact used. I took shots at 2 tankers sitting in a harbor, they were clear shots with nothing in the way of the torps. Regardless of settings, my torps always went under the ships. One ship had a draft depth listed as 9ft and the other 15ft. Even setting them to run at 5 ft, the torps just go straight under the ships (both). Any ideas?



I'm running the following mods (wish I could attach a pic as I don't use website storage for pics): Trigger Maru Overhaul 2.5 Update BH V2.0; Nav Map Make-Over TMO Update 2.0; NMMO Patch TMO Update V2.0; EAX_Clang_Splash_Dud for TMO Update; AAtoDeckguns+Radio; DecoysTMO; EAX_splash_clang_TMOV2.0; GatoLadder3; Radio Messages TMO Update 2.0; Captain Midnights MORE CBS NEWS! MOD v1.2; AlliedShipsTMO; ShipsforTMO (and that is also their load order).

When I created the mod, one thing I set out to do was to simulate historical accuracy, as much as possible, the torpedo issues Us submarines suffered in the war, with the 1941-Fall 1943 being the "prime time" for these issues but some such as circle runners (depending on model of torpedo) a persistent threat during the entire war. I believe I went into detail in the README but I'll give a abbreviated version.

With our knowledge of history, players could "game" the system but simply always setting their torpedoes shallow and especially with magnetic exploders, could still get an absurd amount of tonnage in 1941-Fall 1943. Real life skippers did start setting their torpedoes to shallow depths once tests were conducted and results went through the bureaucracy, but
the torpedoes would still often run too deep when set shallow with an AVERAGE run of 10-12 feet deeper, but may ran far deeper or may run properly. Best strategy is to set them shallow as possible and hope lol, sadly what real life skippers had to do once realized there was a problem.

Thus, I made it where the torpedoes will run deeper, especially until the issue was corrected. Without looking it up (I have not worked on SH 4 in a while, been busy) I believe in Spring/Early summer 1943 is when the issue was mostly resolved, with captains first told by command (outside of telling one another prior) about depth issues following tests in late 1942.

In addition to running deep...the magnetic exploders are far more unreliable in the TMO BH than they were in stock or original TMO etc in order to mirror history and prevent unrealistic tonnage. Their reliability was somewhat lazily made the by SH 4 devs to be related to wave height/sea state in black and white manner, when it was a bit more complicated. Sea state plays a smaller role in the mod, it has a random chance of exploding and I found it simulated
the performance in a more realistic manner.


Duds are also more prevalent. I adjusted the impact angles/dud chances to more historically accurate performance.


Circle run chances were slightly increased.


The MK 18 from introduction in June 1943-December 1943, simulates the initial problems MK 18 had with depth control issues and were prone circle runs. They did not have exploder problems as MK 14, as it used the MK 8 exploder, with no magnetic features.


The MK 10 also suffered from some depth control issues, but not as serious as the MK 14 or MK 18.

All of the issues combined serve to simulate the difficulty early to mid war skippers and crews faced...putting themselves in danger, firing torpedoes accurately but them often failing due to inherent design flaws and leading to not sinking nearly as many ships as would have. Or firing 24 torpedoes and coming home with one ship down, due to faulty torpedoes. Can also simulate the heartbreak of having a once in lifetime target like perfect setup on a carrier or battleship at sea, firing torpedoes "dead on" accurate , in a "cant miss" solution then...all 6 torpedoes or 5 out of six etc fail. For me, this brings a new level to the sim.