Kamikaze: Brave or Insane

[Cybermat47]

Personally, I feel that they were brave men, but still used by their government.

[Red October1984]

There's not an option for "Completely Stupid and Out Of Their Minds"

They are wasting a perfectly good fighting man and a perfectly good plane when a bomb or a rocket could be sent in their place.

I think Kamikaze Attacks are only to be used as a complete, last ditch, nothing-else-is-possible, last resort type of thing.

You could call them brave if you wanted to...but I think it comes down to the Asian "Honor" thing. Boys liked the idea of being a hero for their country and I don't blame them. I just think the way they did it was not good at all.

Same with the "Banzai Charges".....It's not a whole lot different. Just Kamikaze Soldiers. I think it shouldn't be a common combat practice. It's just a big waste.

[Cybermat47]

^^^

That's a very good point you make

[d@rk51d3]

And yet, put the same poll for the ANZAC's at Gallipoli, or even the stand of the brave souls at the Alamo and perhaps get a completely different veiwpoint.

Brave or insane?
Just gullible.

[captgeo]

I agree with Red October in most ways, but Russians used to ram bombers with fighter's, T34 tanks were used the same way against Tigers,Panthers, and the list goes on.......it was used as a great terror tool against the Americans, they expended great resources to combat these tactic's....

so I voted the 3rd choice,

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

And yet, put the same poll for the ANZAC's at Gallipoli, or even the stand of the brave souls at the Alamo and perhaps get a completely different veiwpoint.

I was going to post a statement along those lines last evening, but chickened out. You are a better man than I, and you are absolutely right in this matter.

[Bilge_Rat]

As I understand it, most Kamikazes were not even volunteers. They were assigned to Kamikaze units and felt they had no choice but to obey.

It was an extreme example, but there were many services where the crews knew their chances of survival was slim to none, like U-Boats in 43-45, heavy bomber crews over Europe, any front line infantry unit, etc.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

As I understand it, most Kamikazes were not even volunteers.

Well that contradicts just about everything I've read about them.

The Kamikazes tended to be university students and student pilots (they don't let you fly if you are stupid after all) who volunteered for the mission. The question of whether or not they were brave or insane misses the point entirely, the prevailing Japanese culture of the time focused on worship of a god like emperor and service to the country. This culture fostered a belief in self sacrifice permeated not just the military but civilian society as well.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Well that contradicts just about everything I've read about them.

The Kamikazes tended to be university students and student pilots (they don't let you fly if you are stupid after all) who volunteered for the mission. The question of whether or not they were brave or insane misses the point entirely, the prevailing Japanese culture of the time focused on worship of a god like emperor and service to the country. This culture fostered a belief in self sacrifice permeated not just the military but civilian society as well.

Pretty much how I see it but they were also the last ditch measure of a nation that realised they were going to lose yet culture wise were unable to accept or come to terms with the fact.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Pretty much how I see it but they were also the last ditch measure of a nation that realised they were going to lose yet culture wise were unable to accept or come to terms with the fact.

Very true

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

As I understand it, most Kamikazes were not even volunteers. They were assigned to Kamikaze units and felt they had no choice but to obey.

I would like to see some citations supporting your assertions. The reading I have conducted indicate otherwise.

Was there at least one Kamikaze who was coerced? probably. Were most of them coerced? Probably they coerced themselves.

There are reports of volunteers using family influence to get into the Kamikaze units sooner. It is probably hard for occidentals to understand the mindset of going into battle, not risking death, but having death a certainty. The idea that by sacrifacing one life (yours) you could deliver an in-proportional amount of damage to the enemy. Not part of the occidental culture, but part of the oriental (Japanese) culture.

Hence the occidental viewpoints that they were

1. Insane
2. Drugged
3. Forced
4. Stupid

It is hard to consider being so loyal to your government/society that you are willing not to only risk, but to sacrifice yourself in battle.

That type of dedication is awe-inspiring even if I find the act abhorrent.

But then we make the same judgements against suicide bombers these days.

[Kapt Z]

To quote(as memory serves) the movie PATTON-

"No one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."

[BossMark]

Not sure what to think about this but I'll be honest I would have loved to fight for my country but to fly into a battleship or carrier is something that I wouldn't want do........................................

[sharkbit]

I'm no expert on the subject, but my two cents worth....

I think one thing left out in this discussion is the cultural differences and mentality between East and West during that time. I think we tend to look at this subject through the lenses of our Western Culture.

The Emperor was considered a god at that time. To die for him was a great honor. To people in the West, that concept is too foreign to us. I myself can't fathom why someone would do what the Kamikazes did, but I'm a Westerner also. I wasn't brought up in that time and culture. If you were in that culture, you probably wouldn't think twice about it because you didn't know any better.

Throw in the Code of Bushido that was so prevalent in the Japanese military at that time and it is no wonder there were so few Japanese prisoners taken. The suicides when the battle was lost on so many islands in the Pacific and the Banzai charges aren't so suprising.

I worked with an ex-Marine that was stationed on Okinawa for a time in the '80's. I remember him saying how different the culture is and how difficult it was to get used to it. He said many people couldn't get used to it. Maybe other people on this forum could share any experiences they might have had if they were stationed in Japan or something.

One of the best books I've read on the battle for Iwo Jima was "So Sad to Fall in Battle" by Kumiko Kakehashi. Based on letters from the garrison commander on Iwo, General Kuribayashi, to his wife. It puts a very human face on the "enemy".(Clint Eastwood based his movie "Letters From Iwo Jima" on the book.) It's been a while since I read it but one thing I remember was that he went to Iwo knowing he was going to die. There was no regrets or wishing otherwise.

So, were the Kamikazes brave, crazy, or stupid? I think that is pretty difficult to answer based on cultural differences.