[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Hi Fitzcarraldo


Would you have a link to the the environmental mod made by Kriller. Can't seem to find it in the download section or via search.


Would like to give it a try myself.

It is included as an optional in FOTRS V2, and this is in the download area of SUBSIM Forums. I can upload only the environment, if I'm authorized.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

It is included as an optional in FOTRS V2, and this is in the download area of SUBSIM Forums. I can upload only the environment, if I'm authorized.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

Found FOTRS v2.0 in the downloads. D/ling now. Thx, Fitzcarraldo.

[Michael Wood]

Been playing a lot in Asiatic Fleet.

1) Hydrophones have magic range even greater than that of the silly range in TMO mod. Tested this. No need for radar, since hydrophones always detect enemy ships before radar in any weather, at any depth and when traveling any speed on surface or submerged. Have commented on this before (and may do so again).

2) Crews quarters has dumb name, "Watch Crew Lounge". Lounge? With a bar and piano player? I assume you moved the crews quarters from behind the control room to in front of torpedo room so player would not have to drag sailors so far.

3) Absolutely fantastic missions, which is the great saving feature of this mod. Love 'em. Reason I am playing mod. Best of any mod.

4) Escort ships operate properly, not too perceptive.

5) No crashes so far, except when exiting game, when playing Narwhal class boat. No idea why.

6) Cannot turn hydrophone handle in Narwhal with keys or mouse and playing with map updates off, this is a problem.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

Been playing a lot in Asiatic Fleet.

1) Hydrophones have magic range even greater than that of the silly range in TMO mod. Tested this. No need for radar, since hydrophones always detect enemy ships before radar in any weather, at any depth and when traveling any speed on surface or submerged. Have commented on this before (and may do so again).

My only comment on this is that I have no clue (as of yet) as how to "fix" the issue. Our resident team expert has retired, and if he comes back, it might get "fixed", but then again, maybe not. I know Stock is wonky on this also. One mod does rather well at "historic" with it, so we might consider learning from them...

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

2) Crews quarters has dumb name, "Watch Crew Lounge". Lounge? With a bar and piano player? I assume you moved the crews quarters from behind the control room to in front of torpedo room so player would not have to drag sailors so far.

Unfortunately, none of the "exterior" crew is protected when the boat submerges. Since the Damage Team was made big enough to hold the gun crews, and screen real estate ran out, the "Lounge" was inserted there to allow display of the full crew "across" at most resolutions. Mayhaps it would become "Submerged Billet" instead? But there's probably not enough room for that text...

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

3) Absolutely fantastic missions, which is the great saving feature of this mod. Love 'em. Reason I am playing mod. Best of any mod.

4) Escort ships operate properly, not too perceptive.

Glad you like that part. More is planned for this arena

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

5) No crashes so far, except when exiting game, when playing Narwhal class boat. No idea why.

6) Cannot turn hydrophone handle in Narwhal with keys or mouse and playing with map updates off, this is a problem.

The Narwhal is a "kit-bash", where two subs were cloned and then combined to make the boat (TMO). It does not have 6" guns, is not the proper length, nor does it have a proper bow and deck gun positions, but I doubt if any of that is the cause. We'll look into that hydrophone handle - can't have that. Did you happen to notice your sub's dials? Things like the depth gauge, rpm gauges, etc? If you have a Save from when you know the sonar head wouldn't rotate, if you could load that and see what the rest of the gauges are doing, specifically if they are stuck at 12 O'Clock High? One thing one of the players noted was that even though the head didn't show as rotating, it actually was, and they could then "hear" the target - though finding the heading was more than a pinch difficult...

What I have found with this game, is that any little thing being "off" with the configuration of anything, and the game might CTD on exit. The more of those little errors there are, the greater the chance of CTD while playing. There are also a couple of planes in the current version that are "off" somewhat, with the Betty being one of them. But nothing shows "off" consistently. It is difficult at best to find some of these issues, and when they are inconsistent, nigh on impossible tofind, much less to "fix"...

[Michael Wood]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

My only comment on this is that I have no clue (as of yet) as how to "fix" the issue. Our resident team expert has retired, and if he comes back, it might get "fixed", but then again, maybe not. I know Stock is wonky on this also. One mod does rather well at "historic" with it, so we might consider learning from them......

Used to have a friend who was a hydrophone operator on an attack cargo ship (AKA). Sitting at anchor, he said he could hear ships passing at about 6,000 yards. The operators manual on the hydrophone on the bottom hull of WW II submarines (JP Listening Gear) says to secure the station, when moving on the surface at normal or fast speeds. Could find no case where enemy ships were ever detected by hydrophones on a WW II submarine, while surfaced, at any speed, at any time. The heads were on JP Listening Gear could be used at close range and slow speed, but long before they could be detected with hydrophone, the enemy ship could be detected visually....

The way the mod currently functions changes the way the game is played to something very gamey and unrealistic. I know you could fix the operating on the surface problem, because you did so with the S boats. Make all boats' hydrophones operate like the S boats and half the range and you will have something akin to reality. Of course, I know that you cannot make the mod to the specifications of one player, so I may just have to mod your mod to suit my game play or more likely, steal your campaign missions and apply them to Real Fleet Boat. Thanks for your response and for listening to my rant.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Unfortunately, none of the "exterior" crew is protected when the boat submerges. Since the Damage Team was made big enough to hold the gun crews, and screen real estate ran out, the "Lounge" was inserted there to allow display of the full crew "across" at most resolutions. Mayhaps it would become "Submerged Billet" instead? But there's probably not enough room for that text......

Or, you could move the crew quarters to behind the control room and call it "Crew Quarters".

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Glad you like that part. More is planned for this arena...

More? Good. Your scenario maker is your team's cleverest fellow.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The Narwhal is a "kit-bash", where two subs were cloned and then combined to make the boat (TMO). It does not have 6" guns, is not the proper length, nor does it have a proper bow and deck gun positions, but I doubt if any of that is the cause. We'll look into that hydrophone handle - can't have that. Did you happen to notice your sub's dials? Things like the depth gauge, rpm gauges, etc? If you have a Save from when you know the sonar head wouldn't rotate, if you could load that and see what the rest of the gauges are doing, specifically if they are stuck at 12 O'Clock High? One thing one of the players noted was that even though the head didn't show as rotating, it actually was, and they could then "hear" the target - though finding the heading was more than a pinch difficult......

I have found the Narwhal doesn't really seem to work well in any mod. Noble attempt.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

What I have found with this game, is that any little thing being "off" with the configuration of anything, and the game might CTD on exit. The more of those little errors there are, the greater the chance of CTD while playing. There are also a couple of planes in the current version that are "off" somewhat, with the Betty being one of them. But nothing shows "off" consistently. It is difficult at best to find some of these issues, and when they are inconsistent, nigh on impossible tofind, much less to "fix"...

Just tried again and in this case, hydrophone handle worked just fine. Game crashed when exiting.

[merc4ulfate]

Been playing a lot in Asiatic Fleet.

Me too

1) Hydrophones have magic range even greater than that of the silly range in TMO mod. Tested this. No need for radar, since hydrophones always detect enemy ships before radar in any weather, at any depth and when traveling any speed on surface or submerged. Have commented on this before (and may do so again).

I have no idea what you mean with this. My radar always sees them before sonar. You might want to check your installation.

2) Crews quarters has dumb name, "Watch Crew Lounge". Lounge? With a bar and piano player? I assume you moved the crews quarters from behind the control room to in front of torpedo room so player would not have to drag sailors so far.

Sorry to hear it takes you that long to move them. You might have mentioned this ten years ago when it was already there in the game. Some things are hard coded and you can't please everyone.

3) Absolutely fantastic missions, which is the great saving feature of this mod. Love 'em. Reason I am playing mod. Best of any mod.

Haven't played a single one. The campaign side has been so much more interesting.

4) Escort ships operate properly, not too perceptive.

They explained that.

5) No crashes so far, except when exiting game, when playing Narwhal class boat. No idea why.

You may have a corrupt installation. I would start over.

6) Cannot turn hydrophone handle in Narwhal with keys or mouse and playing with map updates off, this is a problem.

Just played this and all works fine. Check your installation.

[/QUOTE]

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

Or, you could move the crew quarters to behind the control room and call it "Crew Quarters".

We had a lounge while I was on a boat ... it was called the mess deck. Lounge/mess deck all the same.


I have found the Narwhal doesn't really seem to work well in any mod. Noble attempt.

I'm not sure how you others might be playing the Narwhal but the hydrophones and controls work fine on my installation and I just
took out a Kongo, Naga, two Shokaku, two other CV half sunk and adrift and one Fubuki down. Seems to work damn fine to me

...

[Michael Wood]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

We had a lounge while I was on a boat ..

You were on a fleet boat? How old are you? Oh, and how far could you detect vessels with a hydrophone, when surfaced?

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

You were on a fleet boat? How old are you? Oh, and how far could you detect vessels with a hydrophone, when surfaced?

There are more than one type of vessel called boats. We had no Fleet boats when I served they were wooden hulled. I am fairly ancient.

A hydrophone is garbage when on the surface. Ask any sonar operator in a tin can. Slow or all stop and listen was the trick on a DD. The reason was one or two could triangulate listening and then by radio direct the others on coordinates to drop depth charges.

Remember when surfaced your running a hugely noisy diesel engine. On top of that you have a huge amount of noise being generated by the water itself hitting the metal hull of the Fleet Boat or surface vessel.

During WW2 the Kreigsmarine were ahead of the game when it came to passive sonar techniques. With the GHG had at the start 24 sensors and latter 48 sensors. A single ship could be determined 20KM away and a convoy at 100KM

After JP and JT submarines had the model WCA equipment using 3 transducers and 1 hydrophone in three separate housings. The NM is a magnetostriction transducer. The QC magnetostriction transducer and the JK Rochelle-salt hydrophone are housed in one sound head, called the QC-JK. The QB is a Rochelle-salt transducer.

Latter on with WFA-1 you could even map minefields with about 600 yards of range. Which I was was model in the game. I have yet to see a minefield my sonar can detect. Fairly interesting however to move through a minefield and watch out of the periscope.

If you want to do some in depth reading on Hydrophones and Sonar Read these two:

NAVPERS 10884

NAVPERS 16167

If you would like a listen on the real thing ... take a listen here:

JP-1

Learn it well or see you in hell.

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

You were on a fleet boat? How old are you? Oh, and how far could you detect vessels with a hydrophone, when surfaced?

16,000 yards underwater. Zero surfaced.

[FotRSU Mod Team]

Please folks, no purposeful attempts at fratricide allowed in this thread. Besides the fact that it is the holiday season, we must-needs be civil with each other at all times. We do want ~constructive~ criticism, but no bickering or sniping, please. Thanks

[mikesn9]

All the info:
Windows 7 64bit FOTRSU v1.0.1g , no other add on mods (LAA covered below)

First time, I was on 3rd or 4th patrol (don't remember for sure).
I had read here, that LAA was needed to view museum. I noticed that I could not see anything in Museum. I have LAA I thought, but went to the LAA program and enabled SH4 just in case. Then could see ships in Museum. Hmmm. It appears (DUH!) that when I replace SH4 with pristine to change Mods, I needed to re-activate LAA.
When I started playing the game, I got CTDs from ALL saves "at sea". I could load Autosave.

I decided to start over. went back to pristine, activated LAA, enabled FOTRSU. Played 2 patrols (with gauge problems near end of patrol both times). Started patrol 3, , Did my normal save (Patrol Number, date, time before doing anything) headed to Marshalls, sank 1 ship, saved, and proceeded on, had a DD approaching, decided I didn't have the time (in real life) to avoid, so I saved again. 3 days later, all 3 saves went to CTD. I am able to load the autosave on leaving base. I did my usual start save, went to main menu and reloaded 'start' save ok.

Any of this make sense?

[propbeanie]

The "Save" system is wonky at times... When you change mods, you need to change the Save data folder for all version-to-version changes of FotRSU thus far. This will oftentimes include certain configuration changes. Some mods can be activated while on patrol, but they are few and far between, and if you noticed, Team_Leader changed the next version from a "Possibly compatible" to a "probably not" compatible next-version... It doesn't take much of a change in a mod to do that. If you have a campaign you want to keep, it is best to not mess with the mod configuration, unless it is for something like a flag mod.

Just for clarification, the LAA app is independent, and has nothing to do with SH4.exe. When you run LAA and "enable" SH4.exe, all you are doing is flipping a couple of bits in the SH4.exe executable file's "header" that lets Windows know that it (SH4.exe) can access more than 2 gig of RAM. Once the SH4.exe is replaced with a 'pristine' copy, it no longer has those bits flipped and will need LAA run against it again.

So, when you go from beta to the full release, you need a 'pristine' copy of FotRSU. You need to run MulitSH4 next if you are going to use it. Then LAA. You can enable the new mod most anywhere after the 'pristine' is brought in. But you must not fail to empty the Save game folder, else you pollute the Saves that you already have, and end up with a strange mess sometimes. When in doubt, clean the Save folder. From the way you describe your situation, the "Save" info was probably already corrupt from not having LAA set correctly, so when you do enable LAA, you've got a mess in the folder, and it just kept spreading...

[mikesn9]

Thanks, Prop.

On the first set of bad saves, I assumed that setting LAA was the cause.

On the second set of lost saves, no changes were made.

I deleted the SH4 folder in documents before changing mods, and always save to a new name, never overwrite, and back out to main menu first if I am leaving the game.

Historically, I don't believe US subs patrolled on the surface with a flag flying on the rear. I maybe wrong, but anyway, is there any simple way to remove the flag from the rear when surfaced? Can you point me to the correct file to make a simple text edit? Thanks