[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Michael Wood]

I have read all the arguments online: Hydrophone on chin allowed submarines to hear enemy ships while surfaced, crews trained in listening while on surface, chin hydrophones could only hear high frequency sounds such as pinging and so forth.

I have also read several submarine ships logs, where no record of locating enemy ships using the hydrophone while surfaced was recorded.

If discussion of this issue is an option, I would like to hear what others think. If powers that be have decided this issue is closed for FOTRS, please let me know.

Thanks.

[Aktungbby]

Skipper44!

[THEBERBSTER]

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[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Skipper44

I'm having a persistent ctd with an S Boat in the Asiatic Fleet in early 1942

I just finished my second S Boat patrol. The first one saw me relocating from Manilla to Surabaya with no issues. On this one, I was out from the end of February '42 to April of the same year. As Java fell, I was told to go first to Freemantle and then to Brisbane. At one point loading from this save the home port anchor was on Freemantle, on the other, neither. Proceeding to Freemantle wouldn't let me end the patrol so I had to take the long way around to Brisbane in an S boat which took quite a while!

Anyways, once I try to leave the office screen and go on my 3rd patrol I get a ctd. I've tried starting both inside and outside of the harbor. I've tried transferring to Dutch Harbor but also get a ctd when trying to leave port.

I was pretty proud of the 2 heavy cruisers I bagged with an S boat and would rather not lose the career, if possible.

You got buried there Skipper44, and we missed you. Sorry 'bout that... Do you happen to remember your mission orders when you went to leave on your first patrol from Brisbane? I did find a couple of issues with some Solomon Sea and Islands missions, but mostly just wording that wouldn't cause a CTD. If you happen to remember the orders, I can track your issue down a bit faster. The "Transfer" process doesn't have anything to do with what you hit. The reason you did not have a base for a bit when re-loading a Save is because of the way the game does saves. There is always a little bit of time at a minimum between the Fremantle Base "de-activating" and the Brisbane Base "coming online". You cannot overlap the time frame, because the game does not know what to do then. You are only supposed to have one "home port". Anyway, there might be something amiss with a calling code for the mission, or a tracker code for the Save situation...

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

I have read all the arguments online: Hydrophone on chin allowed submarines to hear enemy ships while surfaced, crews trained in listening while on surface, chin hydrophones could only hear high frequency sounds such as pinging and so forth.

I have also read several submarine ships logs, where no record of locating enemy ships using the hydrophone while surfaced was recorded.

If discussion of this issue is an option, I would like to hear what others think. If powers that be have decided this issue is closed for FOTRS, please let me know.

Thanks.

I would say that the issue is closed for FotRSU, but Rockin Robbins or CapnScurvy or cdrsubron7 or s7rikeback might say otherwise. What happens with a submarine on the surface is that you now have a radar operator (if the device is available) and a watch look-out crew, so the hydrophone station is probably "blanked". If there were an assigned station for it in the crew screen, you could drag the person out of the position, and put him back in there if you encountered fog or it gets dark maybe... but I don't know of a way to do that. Maybe someone else does.

Seems to me in the Seawolf book, they mention the way they manned the sonar, and it was not full-time, generally only when submerged, and sometimes with a 2nd person when at Battle Stations... I'll have to try to find that book again...

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Michael Wood

I have read all the arguments online: Hydrophone on chin allowed submarines to hear enemy ships while surfaced, crews trained in listening while on surface, chin hydrophones could only hear high frequency sounds such as pinging and so forth.

I have also read several submarine ships logs, where no record of locating enemy ships using the hydrophone while surfaced was recorded.

If discussion of this issue is an option, I would like to hear what others think. If powers that be have decided this issue is closed for FOTRS, please let me know.

Thanks.

SONAR OPERATIONS

For reference it might be better to refer to gear as SONIC (top T) or SUPERSONIC (bottom spheres) gear instead of top or bottom. They were used differently and had different functional aspects.

[Michael Wood]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

SONAR OPERATIONS

Okay.

[Skipper44]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You got buried there Skipper44, and we missed you. Sorry 'bout that... Do you happen to remember your mission orders when you went to leave on your first patrol from Brisbane? I did find a couple of issues with some Solomon Sea and Islands missions, but mostly just wording that wouldn't cause a CTD. If you happen to remember the orders, I can track your issue down a bit faster. The "Transfer" process doesn't have anything to do with what you hit. The reason you did not have a base for a bit when re-loading a Save is because of the way the game does saves. There is always a little bit of time at a minimum between the Fremantle Base "de-activating" and the Brisbane Base "coming online". You cannot overlap the time frame, because the game does not know what to do then. You are only supposed to have one "home port". Anyway, there might be something amiss with a calling code for the mission, or a tracker code for the Save situation...

I can't remember off the top of my head, sorry.
However, I managed to find a variation of that save that worked (I think I had saved prior to attacking a Task Force) and I docked at Brisbane. In December of 1942 I was assigned an agent insertion mission to Bougainville where once again attempting to leave port triggers a ctd.

As a test I have tried taking out some other boats in December 41 from Pearl Harbour and other classes of boats from the Asiatic Fleet and I am not encountering the same ctd trying to leave port on subsequent patrols.

Also, S Boats leaving on subsequent patrols have their empty tubes filled with mk 14 torpedos and I think maybe their fuel usage is very low. I'm returning to port with over 90% fuel after months of patrolling, is that normal?

[Michael Wood]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

SONAR OPERATIONS

For reference it might be better to refer to gear as SONIC (top T) or SUPERSONIC (bottom spheres) gear instead of top or bottom. They were used differently and had different functional aspects.

No detection on surface by any form of sonic or supersonic hydrophone noted in submarine logs. Just visual sightings and radar detection.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Skipper44

I can't remember off the top of my head, sorry.
However, I managed to find a variation of that save that worked (I think I had saved prior to attacking a Task Force) and I docked at Brisbane. In December of 1942 I was assigned an agent insertion mission to Bougainville where once again attempting to leave port triggers a ctd.

As a test I have tried taking out some other boats in December 41 from Pearl Harbour and other classes of boats from the Asiatic Fleet and I am not encountering the same ctd trying to leave port on subsequent patrols.

Also, S Boats leaving on subsequent patrols have their empty tubes filled with mk 14 torpedos and I think maybe their fuel usage is very low. I'm returning to port with over 90% fuel after months of patrolling, is that normal?

No, the fuel usage is negligible, and might be corrected with the next release. We'll have to see others' experiences with that after the release. The next release puts it back on the skipper to find his "most economical" speed. If you don't do that, and do that early in a mission, you might not have sufficient fuel to get back.

Brisbane comes "onliine" 15 April, 1942 for the S-18 and 42 boats. It almost sounds like you are on your third patrol from Brisbane in December 1942 when you CTD when attempting to leave? You don't remember the orders for the first try, but this last time it was an "Insert" mission to Bougainville... That will put me in the ballpark for checking other missions. As I mentioned before, there are edits to a couple of the files for the next release, and maybe those are what are doing you trouble now. I can compare the new to the old...

As for the torpedoes... Yes, that is an issue with the boats. Changing the torpedoes out before you leave is "free", but frustrating. For an equally frustrating method, you could "Re-Fit" and load torpedoes as you come in, then "Dock to end patrol", which should result in a proper load-out. We have been chasing this rabbit for a good while now, and will keep trying.

[fisch1914]

I got a small question, is it a bug or a feature that you can't disable the event camera anymore?
Whenever I switch it on and off the realism grade doesn't change and the event camera stays on while at sea even when switched off.

[propbeanie]

First point, is that there are two places you can set the Event Camera. On the main menu, Options, GamePlay Settings, is for the Single Missions, Quick Patrols and Multi-Player sections. Whereas, for the Campaign, you get to the menu for the career sections by clicking on the wooden radio console to the left in the US Captains Office, or the file cabinet in the corner by the door for the German Captain's Office.

Second point, the Event Camera no longer counts as a "penalty" for realism in FotRSU because there is not any warning of a torpedo being shot at or near your location by other ships except in the Event Camera. If your sonar man could say "Incoming Torpedo! Bearing 272, closing fast!" or some such, then maybe we could put a penalty on the Event Camera use, but it is advised that you use the camera at least until you get used to friendly and enemy submarines, CA, CL, DD, DE vessels, and air planes shooting them, accidentally at you or otherwise. If at periscope depth, it is possible for an enemy vessel to "target" your scope. One thing to keep in mind though, is that they cannot actually "target" and aim at you. There is an "algorithm" used that the enemy vessel will "shoot a spread" in your general direction. Friendlies also do similar when shooting at the enemy, which can result in a torpedo from them coming your way, if you happen to be caught in the crossfire. The best way to avoid such is to crash dive immediately, turn toward or away to "comb" the wake, let the torps pass by, then turn and come back up if necessary. You won't encounter the situation very often, but it can happen.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

First point, is that there are two places you can set the Event Camera. On the main menu, Options, GamePlay Settings, is for the Single Missions, Quick Patrols and Multi-Player sections. Whereas, for the Campaign, you get to the menu for the career sections by clicking on the wooden radio console to the left in the US Captains Office, or the file cabinet in the corner by the door for the German Captain's Office.

Second point, the Event Camera no longer counts as a "penalty" for realism in FotRSU because there is not any warning of a torpedo being shot at or near your location by other ships except in the Event Camera. If your sonar man could say "Incoming Torpedo! Bearing 272, closing fast!" or some such, then maybe we could put a penalty on the Event Camera use, but it is advised that you use the camera at least until you get used to friendly and enemy submarines, CA, CL, DD, DE vessels, and air planes shooting them, accidentally at you or otherwise. If at periscope depth, it is possible for an enemy vessel to "target" your scope. One thing to keep in mind though, is that they cannot actually "target" and aim at you. There is an "algorithm" used that the enemy vessel will "shoot a spread" in your general direction. Friendlies also do similar when shooting at the enemy, which can result in a torpedo from them coming your way, if you happen to be caught in the crossfire. The best way to avoid such is to crash dive immediately, turn toward or away to "comb" the wake, let the torps pass by, then turn and come back up if necessary. You won't encounter the situation very often, but it can happen.

I now have first-hand experience with the "spread". I was being attacked almost head on by a DE. At about 600 yards he veered about 20 degrees to his left, so I fired a Mark IV at him for what would turn out to be a sure kill. As I lowered the scope I caught a glimpse of four or five torpedos headed my way! As I watched, the center two of the spread passed to either side of my boat, but apparently not close enough to explode. A VERY close call. I need to be more cautious about getting too close to DE's, etc.

[propbeanie]

CapnScurvy did set their range shorter than he initially had them, so as long as you are 1200-1600 yards away, you should be OK, though it does depend upon their AI Visual acumen, which varies from ship to ship... If we had them at "historical" ranges, then you'd be getting shot at as soon as they saw your scope...

[Skipper44]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

No, the fuel usage is negligible, and might be corrected with the next release. We'll have to see others' experiences with that after the release. The next release puts it back on the skipper to find his "most economical" speed. If you don't do that, and do that early in a mission, you might not have sufficient fuel to get back.

Brisbane comes "onliine" 15 April, 1942 for the S-18 and 42 boats. It almost sounds like you are on your third patrol from Brisbane in December 1942 when you CTD when attempting to leave? You don't remember the orders for the first try, but this last time it was an "Insert" mission to Bougainville... That will put me in the ballpark for checking other missions. As I mentioned before, there are edits to a couple of the files for the next release, and maybe those are what are doing you trouble now. I can compare the new to the old...

As for the torpedoes... Yes, that is an issue with the boats. Changing the torpedoes out before you leave is "free", but frustrating. For an equally frustrating method, you could "Re-Fit" and load torpedoes as you come in, then "Dock to end patrol", which should result in a proper load-out. We have been chasing this rabbit for a good while now, and will keep trying.

My S Boat Patrol Dates are:

December 9 - February 14
February 21 - May 11
June 13 - August 17
September 21 - November 21
December 20 - March 4

On most of those patrols after the first one I had a ctd trying to leave base and loaded either the autosave on entering base, the autosave on leaving base or another save and tried again until it worked.

Finally, on March 5, 1943 clicking the map to start a mission:
ERROR: No Primary Objective Found

I have not been offered a fleet boat and have not been transferred to the Aleutians .