Video emerges of Minneapolis police killing a citizen - - Riots

[mapuc]

Some thoughts

Isn't it possible to develop some kind of a non-deadly weapon where the person is being paralysed by some poison, which doesn't damage the persons heart, liver, kidney and so on. I'm not talking about the taser they have today.
Like some of the poison our animal use in the nature, but made non-deadly.

Remember a doctor saying in Danish news some years ago, this Taser can be deadly if the person who get hit by it, have a bad heart.

Just a thought.

Another thing.
It seems like every statue have to be demolished whether the history behind them is good or bad

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

They just reported in the news that the suspect stole a taser and ran away, when he was shot dead. Where is this evidence, for any scenario?

There are two videos, one from the police car and one from the building's wall or entrance. The second shows how he struggled, ran with the tazer in his hand, and while running he aimed backward, and fired, you can see the dart and the cable flashing through the air over the cop's head. You ana see that then the cop pulled his pistol or colt formt e holster (not before!) and fired three shots in qwucik succession. The videos I saw just after my first comment on Atlanata, when typign my first reply, I had not seen them, they were released later, I have seen them since then.

Honestly said, I would have probably reacted the very same way: I get fired on by some rhino? I bring effect on the guy as fast as I can so he must stop. A military-trained person maybe would have done not 3 quick shots, but two quick shots as fast as possible on the "centre of mass" to quickly get - unaimed but certain - effect and supressing the target, and then having won the time for a more controlled third shot.

The man should have not started a struggle, but that still was not what got him into trouble. The real trouble was that he FIRED at the direction of the cop. That's when my humour would have immediately - and at the latest - come to an end, and the cop obviously ticked the same way.

Sorry, I cannot condemn this man. The situaiton, the quickness of situation unfolding, the knowledge of the man being under alcohol influence, the weapon fired at him - the officer acted much by reflex and self-preserving training, I think. I cannot completely condemn him. Even more so since it was reported that he had a clean service reputation, no questionable incidents, some media reported.

Did the dead man deserve death in all this? No. But he plays a role in why things escalaed, because it were his decisions, to drink, to sit in a car with alcohol, falling asleep and blocking the road, first cooperating and suddenly reacting violently to the cop's appearance, and finally shooting the tazer. The latter was the one step too far in this stepdance to doom.

If you play with fire, sometimes things start burning. The situation escalated and went wrong. Brown stuff happens. But I cannot completely blame the cop. One may argue that he should have fired with aim to hurt and only to stop the other - but has anyone said he did not do that? He reacted very fast, but I cannot accuse him for doing so. The first shot was fired by the now dead suspcect. Psychology cliocks in, self-preservation instinct, stress, adrenline pumping, it all came together.

This is not another Chauvin-like case, not at all. It just a case that cooked over. Brown stuff happens. No police brutalizing here. Just a cop in self-defence and a situation that detoriated extremely quickly. An exmination and disciplinary measures maybe are a must, of course, yes. But already charging him with murder? I object.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Some thoughts

Isn't it possible to develop some kind of a non-deadly weapon where the person is being paralysed by some poison, which doesn't damage the persons heart, liver, kidney and so on. I'm not talking about the taser they have today.
Like some of the poison our animal use in the nature, but made non-deadly.

Remember a doctor saying in Danish news some years ago, this Taser can be deadly if the person who get hit by it, have a bad heart.

Just a thought.

Another thing.
It seems like every statue have to be demolished whether the history behind them is good or bad

Markus

Of course there are such weapon, but whether they are practical to use in everyday duty is something different. American police gets accused of tazering way too much and way too easily, that is correct, but I cannot see that being the case in the videos we have in this case.

[mapuc]

A Danish news paper had an article about some meeting between the Council in Chicago and 50 wards (I think it was what they called)
This meeting shouldn't have been released to the public..it have.

Only English version I could find is this

This is far worse than it was in 1968,' said Alderman Ed Burke, who was elected to the City Council in 1969, as he warned that vigilantes could take matters into their own hands.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...officials.html

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

You honestly think that a population that by majority is not black but where racism is present and some would say: prominent, and a police force that by 50+% is black, does not create new problems? Well, I think it would. In no time.

Well, 50% of crime is caused by black men so why not 50% of all police forces being manned by black officers? I don't have a problem with getting stopped by a black officer, have had it happen in the past. But wait, oh yeah, I wasn't inebriated, I don't have a criminal record, I don't have multiple outstanding warrants, I don't give the officer a lot of hostility and argument... I don't fight them or try to punch them or grab their weapons.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that most of the people getting shot would have the same experience when they encounter LEO if they behaved the same way.


[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Armistead

When I look at stats, most of what I'm seeing is a big circular jerk off of passing the blame backwards.

Blacks are shot at a rate 2-3 times higher than whites by police officers, but the reasoning is said 13% of blacks commit over 50% of violent crimes.. so more police interaction. Then comes the argument that blacks are profiled, arrested and charged more than whites, thus a much higher unfair crime stat than whites, but then stats police are called into black communities via 911 at a much higher rate than white communities.

Part of the problem is obviously the news agencies. Every day when we turn on the local Houston news, it's the Black Men Crime Hour", that's all they show. Black men breaking into a cell phone store and beating the living crap out of some girl, black men shooting each other outside a club, black men stealing a car. etc. When they show a Mexican or White guy, it's pretty amazing. Haven't ever seen an Asian guy, except that fat one in North Korea, and that's not really local.

Originally Posted by MaDef

agreed, but looking for solutions through the racism prism limits the solutions available to us.

You want to fix this crap, it's simple, layout clear standards & procedures police must follow all the time, and when they deviate, they need to be held to account.

Well, to be fair, this problem has been presented through the prism of racism, wouldn't you say? Black lives matter?

We should have clear standards? We already have those. This is the United States and each state accredits their own agencies and laws very in every state. In TX you need TCOLE certification. Back in 1990, that was 15 weeks and I am sure it is more now. 18 weeks? Once you leave the academy and go on the street, there was 15 additional weeks of field training. Again that has probably increased. What is the magic # if 30 weeks out of 52 is not enough?

Maybe some of the standards need to change. It sounds like the protesters and much of the "resist arrest" sympathizers essentially want to go to the honor system. If a suspect resists, the officer should step back and tell the fleeing criminal, "Ok, sir, come by the courthouse when you get time and we can finish this".

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There are two videos, one from the police car and one from the building's wall or entrance. The second shows how he struggled, ran with the tazer in his hand, and while running he aimed backward, and fired, you can see the dart and the cable flashing through the air over the cop's head. You ana see that then the cop pulled his pistol or colt formt e holster (not before!) and fired three shots in qwucik succession. The videos I saw just after my first comment on Atlanata, when typign my first reply, I had not seen them, they were released later, I have seen them since then.

Honestly said, I would have probably reacted the very same way: I get fired on by some rhino? I bring effect on the guy as fast as I can so he must stop. A military-trained person maybe would have done not 3 quick shots, but two quick shots as fast as possible on the "centre of mass" to quickly get - unaimed but certain - effect and supressing the target, and then having won the time for a more controlled third shot.

The man should have not started a struggle, but that still was not what got him into trouble. The real trouble was that he FIRED at the direction of the cop. That's when my humour would have immediately - and at the latest - come to an end, and the cop obviously ticked the same way.

Sorry, I cannot condemn this man. The situaiton, the quickness of situation unfolding, the knowledge of the man being under alcohol influence, the weapon fired at him - the officer acted much by reflex and self-preserving training, I think. I cannot completely condemn him. Even more so since it was reported that he had a clean service reputation, no questionable incidents, some media reported.

Did the dead man deserve death in all this? No. But he plays a role in why things escalaed, because it were his decisions, to drink, to sit in a car with alcohol, falling asleep and blocking the road, first cooperating and suddenly reacting violently to the cop's appearance, and finally shooting the tazer. The latter was the one step too far in this stepdance to doom.
.

I like how you see this. Best comment so far imo.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Some thoughts

Isn't it possible to develop some kind of a non-deadly weapon where the person is being paralysed by some poison, which doesn't damage the persons heart, liver, kidney and so on. I'm not talking about the taser they have today.
Like some of the poison our animal use in the nature, but made non-deadly.

Remember a doctor saying in Danish news some years ago, this Taser can be deadly if the person who get hit by it, have a bad heart.

Just a thought.

Another thing.
It seems like every statue have to be demolished whether the history behind them is good or bad

Markus

No officer is ever taught to shoot anyone to kill them. If a someone discharges their firearm it is to stop the commission of a crime which warrants the use of deadly force. Deadly force is a force which may cause serious bodily injury or death.

As far as 'non-deadly' force goes. Its been awhile, but I'm only aware of verbal commands, soft empty hand control, hard empty hand control, and intermediary weapons such as CURB-60, Pepper Spray, or a baton. All of which require very close contact which is something you really want to avoid.

But sometimes even the use of non deadly force can cause serious bodily injury or death. Just ask that 75 year old man that was shoved backwards. That officer used non deadly force and things went from bad to worse pretty damn quick when the old man fell and cracked his skull open. Instead of acting like a goon squad, if those officers had a plan to address the situation they encountered and a good leader to maintain control of his officers, things could have turned out much differently.


As for the latest shooting. That guy got what he deserved.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Catfish

They just reported in the news that the suspect stole a taser and ran away, when he was shot dead. Where is this evidence, for any scenario?

Go to MSNBC they showed over and over Saturday night 24hrs after the attack

The man did indeed steal a taser from one cop that was left behind and fired it while running behind him at another cop who dropped his taser pulled his gun and shot him three time.

Let the jury decide ... the policeman will probably get away with it as being very close to self defence.

Stuff happens when your afraid

[Rockstar]

Also, should add there is nobody that good who could place a shot just too wound someone either. You could shoot'em in the butt and that bullet could ricochet off the hipbone into the abdomen thru the heart and exit the arm pit.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Maybe some of the standards need to change. It sounds like the protesters and much of the "resist arrest" sympathizers essentially want to go to the honor system. If a suspect resists, the officer should step back and tell the fleeing criminal, "Ok, sir, come by the courthouse when you get time and we can finish this".

George Floyd didn’t resist arrest. Yet he was still slowly choked to death.

Justine Diamond didn’t resist arrest. Yet she was still shot to death by the very police she’d called to the scene for assistance.

Philando Castile didn’t resist arrest. Yet he was still shot after properly announcing to police that he was exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and concealed carry permit.

How are either of those cases justifiable? Seriously, tell me how there was no other possible outcome than death.

“Exercising our right to bear arms should not translate to a death sentence over something so trivial as a traffic stop for a broken tail light, and we are going to watch this case with a magnifying glass.”
- 2nd Amendment Foundation response to the shooting of Philando Castile

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

George Floyd didn’t resist arrest. Yet he was still slowly choked to death.

Justine Diamond didn’t resist arrest. Yet she was still shot to death by the very police she’d called to the scene for assistance.

Philando Castile didn’t resist arrest. Yet he was still shot after properly announcing to police that he was exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and concealed carry permit.

I only know about the first case and I agree, that was very clearly police malfeasance.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Also, should add there is nobody that good who could place a shot just too wound someone either. You could shoot'em in the butt and that bullet could ricochet off the hipbone into the abdomen thru the heart and exit the arm pit.

That can't be right, I see it happen in the movies all the time. The "Waco Kid" did it in Blazing Saddles.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Armistead

When I look at stats, most of what I'm seeing is a big circular jerk off of passing the blame backwards.

What's going on here is that large numbers of black voters were shifting to supporting Trump, and the other side didn't like it one bit. You must not leave the democrat plantation or else.

[Mr Quatro]

These protesters need a hurricane, but it's not August yet

[Reece]

Where's August when you need him!!!