[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

May I present to you:

The US Sub Tender:




The IJN Sub Tender: with Japanese crew, different gun casings and IJN flag.



It has taken me nearly a week to work out the EQP files and record both the American & Japanese node links... So I "Should now be able to copy more vessels carrying guns, crews, flags..."

I have noticed that Maddy loves his guns, all multiple rostered ships as per your spreadsheet, are all fully loaded with them.

So by the looks of it, I have my work cut out with not only copying each ship folder and updating the roster and ship configs, but i also have to alter each EQP file to represent the correct rostered guns & crew...

Now the big question:

1. Do You want the IJN merchants to be armed as well as the non IJN varients (copies) to be armed?
2. Just the IJN Merchants?
3. Just the non IJN Merchants (copies)?
4. Or no arms at all - just means I delete the EQP from each folder?

***Deleteing the EQP file also removes aminated crew & Searchlights***


Regards,
s7rikeback.

Nice work, s7trikback. The tender is looking good. We'll let the boss decide how he wants the merchants armed. I'd been wondering how you'd been doing with this project and by the looks of things, you've got a handle on it.

Great going.

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Nice work, s7trikback. The tender is looking good. We'll let the boss decide how he wants the merchants armed. I'd been wondering how you'd been doing with this project and by the looks of things, you've got a handle on it.

Great going.

[Rockin Robbins]

How about a JSGME plugin mod that arms all merchants? Basically a bow and a stern 5" gun would be about right with a medium rated crew on board. That would let people play as is or ramp up the merchie danger!

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

How about a JSGME plugin mod that arms all merchants? Basically a bow and a stern 5" gun would be about right with a medium rated crew on board. That would let people play as is or ramp up the merchie danger!

Sounds good, but crew wise I have only found Roster values within the EQP files for IJN or US.

I have found nothing yet to declare crew skill levels.

Below is an example from the IJN data I have gathered so far from various ship EQP Files:

Japan_FLG
25mm_Single_base_Jp
25mm_Triple_base_Jp
3InchSingle_base_Jp
4_7InchSingleT_Jp
4_7InchDoubleT
5in_AA_Double_base_Jp
5.5in_Single_base_Jp
6in_Single_base_Jp
14in_Double_base_Jp
char_JPNSailor_lw
char2_JPNSailors
char4_JPNSailors
Type_92_ReflectorSmall_base_JP
Type_92_Reflector_base_JP
KGun
DCRack_SH4
JP_Shiprocket
Signal_Base

I have have not yet been throught every ship type US or IJN. Just cherry picked a few to get me started....

However:
Both Tenders are using the same "20mm_Single_base_US" Yet the IJN ships show a different gun casing.

So i "should be able to give both IJN or Varients" (Copies) the same fire power, But as per normal this would be a WIP until i can make sure all ships can accept the changes and run in game.

So for a basic launch with FOTRSU should I remove the EQP file and then add it later to the optional mods?

Regards,
Dan aka s7rikeback.

[cdrsubron7]

Thanks to s7trikback we now have a another ship for FOTRSU. Looks great, s7strikback.

Should mention it now a Japanese Naval Ensign on the flag pole also.

[s7rikeback]

I have asked about including the Heian Maru from Miner1436's ship pack v1.
which also includes the following ships:

CL Oyodo
CVE Ryuho
NCOS Yoshino
NKLCS Heian


On the 15 October 1941 the 11,616-ton passenger-cargo liner by the Osaka Iron Works for the Nippon Yusen K. K. (NYK) Line was converted into a Sub Tender according to this link.

Speaking to cdrsubron7 he has quite rightly suggested that I put this problem forward to to all members:

If we were to include this ship, what would we use at as, a tender or cargo?


cdrsubron7 is now doing research on the NCOS Yoshino to also put it forward for including this ship to the roster.

[cdrsubron7]

Yoshino Maru




According to the Japanese Merchant Ship ID book, the best match is;

Yosino Maru

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Thanks to s7trikback we now have a another ship for FOTRSU. Looks great, s7strikback.

Should mention it now a Japanese Naval Ensign on the flag pole also.

Looking good Subron

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

I have asked about including the Heian Maru from Miner1436's ship pack v1.
which also includes the following ships:

CL Oyodo
CVE Ryuho
NCOS Yoshino
NKLCS Heian


On the 15 October 1941 the 11,616-ton passenger-cargo liner by the Osaka Iron Works for the Nippon Yusen K. K. (NYK) Line was converted into a Sub Tender according to this link.

Speaking to cdrsubron7 he has quite rightly suggested that I put this problem forward to to all members:

If we were to include this ship, what would we use at as, a tender or cargo?


cdrsubron7 is now doing research on the NCOS Yoshino to also put it forward for including this ship to the roster.

Sounds good Strikeback
If they get added I will happily give them some pretty paintjobs

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Sounds good, but crew wise I have only found Roster values within the EQP files for IJN or US.

I have found nothing yet to declare crew skill levels.

Below is an example from the IJN data I have gathered so far from various ship EQP Files:

Japan_FLG
25mm_Single_base_Jp
25mm_Triple_base_Jp
3InchSingle_base_Jp
4_7InchSingleT_Jp
4_7InchDoubleT
5in_AA_Double_base_Jp
5.5in_Single_base_Jp
6in_Single_base_Jp
14in_Double_base_Jp
char_JPNSailor_lw
char2_JPNSailors
char4_JPNSailors
Type_92_ReflectorSmall_base_JP
Type_92_Reflector_base_JP
KGun
DCRack_SH4
JP_Shiprocket
Signal_Base

I have have not yet been throught every ship type US or IJN. Just cherry picked a few to get me started....

However:
Both Tenders are using the same "20mm_Single_base_US" Yet the IJN ships show a different gun casing.

So i "should be able to give both IJN or Varients" (Copies) the same fire power, But as per normal this would be a WIP until i can make sure all ships can accept the changes and run in game.

So for a basic launch with FOTRSU should I remove the EQP file and then add it later to the optional mods?

Regards,
Dan aka s7rikeback.

No, let's leave 'em armed. My Convoy from Hell mission, based on TMO has almost all the merchants armed. Part of the goal of TMO was stopping people from playing Rambo with their submarines and their deck guns. It's really tough to play Rambo when you have one deck gun and eight are firing back from four different ships!

So armed merchants are in the spirit of the original mod.

Now, additional ships not already in FOTRS should be JSGME'd up and put into a plugin mod, since our goal for the core mod is to keep it as all Maddy as we can without leaving any groaners in there. A nice robust additional ships plugin will be a flagship plugin. And don't forget--the plugin mods are the real star of the FOTRS Ultimate show. Player control is the theme of our mod!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

On the 15 October 1941 the 11,616-ton passenger-cargo liner by the Osaka Iron Works for the Nippon Yusen K. K. (NYK) Line was converted into a Sub Tender according to this link.

Speaking to cdrsubron7 he has quite rightly suggested that I put this problem forward to to all members:

If we were to include this ship, what would we use at as, a tender or cargo?

Tender! I always wanted to sink a sub tender. Lots of cargo ships out there.

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

No, let's leave 'em armed.

Just an idea Chief?

How about rather than having all the merchants armed for bear right from day one of the war, we have a plugin that starts them off with just MGs, then introduces 20mms and 40mms and proper deck guns over the next few years of the war?

And even then - maybe have a few that do not get 4 or 5 inch guns? They just get the MGs?
And alternatively we have a few very well armed from day one?

This is my thinking - please hear me out - any please bare in mind this is meant to be an Optional Plugin - I am not trying to make it part of the core mod

My reasoning:
In the stock game - you can surface pretty much whenever you want, in early war, and deck gun the hell out of merchants. You KNOW they are not going to be armed, so it is a Zero Loss proposition

Playing TMO, or FOTRSU, you KNOW that they are all well armed up pretty much from Dec 7th 1941, so you act accordingly.
OK so you have hit something with a torpedo?
Thats OK, you know they will be armed like the fourth of July, so you do not take the risk of surfacing to finish them off

Now I know and understand why Ducimus did this - US Subs did not regularly act like destroyers.
But they did on occasion surface to finish targets off

The thing I think we are missing here is uncertainty

Let me say that again

Uncertainty

That is the key thing when it comes to playability - in my opinion

Stock - I know I can surface and duke it out
TMO - I know I cannot surface to finish that merchant, because he has more guns than the NRA

How about a third option?

I am looking through the periscope at a freighter I have just torpedoed
I can maybe see some small stuff (MGs or 20mm cannons)
Is that a 4 or 5 inch deck gun at the back? I cannot quite see properly
Do I take the chance and battle surface now? Or should I stalk a bit more and use another torpedo?

To me it is all about the uncertainty

Having merchants either completely unarmed, or very well armed, all the time, takes away the uncertainty

Please let me say again - this would be an entirely optional plugin

But I am willing to give it a go

I think a little bit of uncertainty is what makes this game so good

[propbeanie]

I like your idea max-peck. Shades of SH 1, only better. In SH 1 (if I'm remembering correctly), the Rec Man would ID the ships that had armament, and what it was, which I thought was a bit hokey. I mean, who knew what was on a ship & when, and could then get that info into a book on my boat for me to use? But the thing was, some merchants were armed, some were not, and if you mis-identified one, you got a potentially dangerous surprise before you could even get on the bridge...

btw max-peck - I still haven't gotten a 'patrol' mission in many attempts. I've gotten several "proceed to xxx and receive further orders", but the one I was actually able to comply with only had me "sink enemy shipping". I'm still enroute to another. The first one was where I kept running into the ASW H/K groups. I even tried to load the save from before my untimely demise, and I managed to get 'demised' twice more. Needless to say, a bit of a bother, and I'll not try to come into that area from along the coast any more...

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

btw max-peck - I still haven't gotten a 'patrol' mission in many attempts.

I know how you feel

The moment I finished re-writing the orders I got about a dozen 'go here and sink stuff ' orders in a row.

After that though I have gotten a few 'patrol this area' orders, and they have been working OK so far.
I have seen my patrol area drawn on the map

If anyone sees it not working (eg. the circler is half a sea away from the patrol area) please let me know and I will fix it

[cdrsubron7]

Just my two cents on arming the merchants in the game. I would say yes also to keeping the merchants armed. just wondering if there is a way to make their shooting a little less accurate. I've read books upon books about the US Submarines in the Pacific and have never heard about one submarine being sunk by enemy merchant fire.