US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

I never understood why anyone would want to be a socialist! It makes no sense. You make government bigger? Give them all the money and purse strings?

The government can’t even handle a simple budget! And you want them to control everything?

No thank you

Social democracy is different to socialism. It’s a democratic capitalist society where there are limits placed on corporations to prevent them from having too much power. So if a corporation is doing something shady that you don’t like, you can vote for a party that will prevent them from doing that shady stuff.

Obviously, though, there’s still room for corruption and failure like any economic and political system, which is why there should be checks on the government’s power. America’s limit on how many terms an individual can serve as president is a good check on the government’s power, for example.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Social democracy is different to socialism. It’s a democratic capitalist society where there are limits placed on corporations to prevent them from having too much power. So if a corporation is doing something shady that you don’t like, you can vote for a party that will prevent them from doing that shady stuff.

The thing is that American's think about socialism is that socialism regardless of what kind will so how equal communism and communism are bad. So by the American definition of what socialism is nearly every nation on the planet is somehow "socialist" in some way, shape or form. What I find interesting is being half Finnish and knowing how Finland is one of the most "socialist" counties there is managed to do one thing that America hasn't even come closing to figuring how to deal with... homelessness. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/i...=pocket-newtab
Also Finland had a civil war after it's independence from the still forming USSR between the White's and the Red's, the Red's lost and then ten years later the USSR attempts to invade and conquer Finland twice in World War Two and the Soviet's still lost. So if ANYONE tires to tell me that socialism will lead to communism I ask them, "So what about Finland?"

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Social democracy is different to socialism. It’s a democratic capitalist society where there are limits placed on corporations to prevent them from having too much power. So if a corporation is doing something shady that you don’t like, you can vote for a party that will prevent them from doing that shady stuff.

That is the issue that in the US it seems to me that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism is still there in another way.

As soon as the discussion turns in the direction to discuss social cocepts (like unemployment help, health insurance for everybody) y get flooded with remarks that you are a socialist or even communist. With such an attitude progress is not possible. Those folks do not realize that we are not living in the 20th century anymore.

There are simply not enough high-paid jobs available anymore for everybody, especially for those who have not a high education level. I have several times mentioned a book everybody should read: https://www.amazon.com/The-Second-Ma.../dp/0393239357
It is not a technical book but describes why we live in a new world and old recipes do not work anymore. It is praised -by the way- by conservative and liberal media.

And it is not only true for the US. My wish would be that the G7 makes this a priority and come up with a concept and execution plan to transform their societies. For the West, this will be as important as its defense, to counter China. China and Russia will exploit every instability in western societies. Should that be really happen ? Is stubbornness (by the left and by the right) really worth this ?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

There are simply not enough high-paid jobs available anymore for everybody, especially for those who have not a high education level.

Dead wrong

i have no college degree, i have a high school diploma a state issued certificate for the line of work i am in. My employer, which pays people to do my job in excess of $180,000 US per year (starting) - consistently cannot retain people because they do not have the aptitude, work ethic or the competence to do the work. They also consistently cannot attract people due to the amount of time you have to invest in learning the skill (about a year) and the frequency of travel required.

high paying jobs for high school graduates are out there, and they are abundant - its just that not anyone can do em (either because of their own aptitude, their looking down their nose at "dirty" work, or their unwillingness to do a job that isnt right across the street from their home)

the jobs are out there that pay well - aircraft mechanics, diesel mechanics, welders, off shore oil workers (until biden closes down the entire oil and gas industry as he said numerous times he would "do just that")

the problem isnt that the jobs arent there - its that people are naturally lazy and take the path of least resistance. they want it to be easy. and what i have learned over the years is that the more your job requires you to sweat, and stink, and get dirt and God knows what else on your hands - the more money it pays.

thats my number one advice to young high school grads - you have to find the thing that everyone is avoiding - the thing they look down on and dont want to do, because thats where the six figure incomes without a college degree are hiding.

"democratic socialism" or "utopian socialism" or "unicorn piss socialism" - no matter what cute little word you put in front of it is socialism - period. and the bottom line is, all socialism does is shrinks the backbone of any society - the middle class - it eventually eliminates that entire class of people from society.

you want to be irked? just leave your family and go out on the road like i do to earn a good wage, and at the end of the year - when you've paid in almost $60,000 in various taxes... you go to the tax man and you see that dude that earned $30,000 and gets a "refund" of $10,000 because he has a special tax credit for each of his six kids. and you get stiffed paying in an extra $7,000 for all your trouble. no good deed goes unpunished.

kinda makes you wonder who is the real idiot.... the guy who got the GED and started getting every woman he laid eyes on pregnant at 17 - or the guy that busts his hump every year just to feed the system.

all this crap about socialism and "this time it will be different" is moronic... it is spewed from the mouths of people who have a seriously hollow space between their ears. I know. i have spoken with enough people who have run from it, swam from it, rafted from it, stole airplanes and defected from it at tree top level etc.

as for this...

Originally Posted by Hawk66

As soon as the discussion turns in the direction to discuss social cocepts (like unemployment help, health insurance for everybody) y get flooded with remarks that you are a socialist or even communist. With such an attitude progress is not possible.

these social programs are a cash cow. they are the hind tit upon which a sprawling mass of people sticks to, suckling away virtually unchecked. the goal should be to get people off of it... and these programs are all too easily taken advantage of

[Hawk66]

You cannot generalize your personal experiences or from your local "bubble" to the whole nation. Nobody reasonable says that there are no (well paid) jobs for people without a college degree anymore.

Do y have a clue how many regular white collar jobs will be gone in the next 30 years ? This will be the next wave ...

I mean we can argue back and forth but there is just scientific evidence for it. The mentioned book summaries it. And again I may add that even conservatives acknowledge the book or the ideas behind it, who are not suspected to be socialists.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

"democratic socialism"...

Social democracy is very different from socialism, democratic or not.

Socialism, as it was defined once and for all, was supposed to be the step, the transition phase, between capitalism and communism.

Social democracy has no room for revolutions, communism, what have you. Social democracy is capitalism, just not unbridled capitalism.

The world is not binary, it's not black or white, right or wrong. Great or socialist.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

”democratic socialism" or "utopian socialism" or "unicorn piss socialism" - no matter what cute little word you put in front of it is socialism - period. and the bottom line is, all socialism does is shrinks the backbone of any society - the middle class - it eventually eliminates that entire class of people from society.

We’re talking about social democracy, not democratic socialism. They’re two different things. Social democracy is capitalism with limits placed on it to prevent monopolies and other shady corporate stuff, democratic socialism is socialism.

If you want proof, just look at how Josef Stalin talked about social democracy:

“Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy.”

If nothing else, the fact that both tankies and Nazis hate social democracy is a point in its favour

[bstanko6]

Capitalism is the greatest thing ever created. Anything else is not constitutional, and therefore unamerican!

[bstanko6]

I agree with Goldenrivet...

My neighbor across the street. No highschool diploma, or college. Dug ditches literally as a kid. Now in his early 50s he is a regional manager of a landscaping company and makes well over 6 figures a year.

Work for what you want. No shortcuts.

[bstanko6]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Social democracy is different to socialism. It’s a democratic capitalist society where there are limits placed on corporations to prevent them from having too much power. So if a corporation is doing something shady that you don’t like, you can vote for a party that will prevent them from doing that shady stuff.

Obviously, though, there’s still room for corruption and failure like any economic and political system, which is why there should be checks on the government’s power. America’s limit on how many terms an individual can serve as president is a good check on the government’s power, for example.

That's what the SEC and many other oversight committees are for. It's already in place. Watch C-SPAN. they are always busting up big companies.

[Skybird]

After Google and Apple, now Amazon as well pulls the plug on Parler.

Parler is an antisocial media service known to be much used by Trumpian extremists, QAnon lunatics and far righters.

[Jimbuna]

GOTCHA!

'QAnon Shaman' Jake Angeli charged over pro-Trump riots.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55606044

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

After Google and Apple, now Amazon as well pulls the plug on Parler.

So much for alternatives to Twitter.

Parler is an antisocial media service known to be much used by Trumpian extremists, QAnon lunatics and far righters.

Iran can call for Jews to be killed on and China can spread propaganda about how rounding up Uyghur men and forced sterilization of Uyghur women is actually good on Twitter’s platform.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by u crank

Iran can call for Jews to be killed on and China can spread propaganda about how rounding up Uyghur men and forced sterilization of Uyghur women is actually good on Twitter’s platform.

Because there’s relatively little outrage about those things in the west, it’s more profitable for Twitter to allow it on their platforms than it is to ban them

[Buddahaid]

The erosion of the middle class seems to be what you are now talking about. Plenty of blame to go around.
https://today.duke.edu/2019/01/road-...economist-says

Twitter blocked China.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55608089