UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

^ what i mean is that a farmer from France will have difficulties to decide whether he stands on a french or a german or wherever field, still he is proud of "his" ground he thinks he is on.
Humans are formed by their surroundings, so man can of course also change attitude, his understanding and perception of culture.

No you did not mention genetics, i just used this to explain a difference between the "hard wiring" and what can be changed by surroundings. (b.t.w. new research shows that genetics can react to surroundings a lot more and faster than it was supposed before - but this has nothing to do with this thread).

If someone stands on his field and is proud of his country, this attitude can change. It is not hard-wired. I doubt there is a natural-born englishman.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Today'S the day. A rough ride is to be expected in the imminent and medium future, but this has been about the longterm perspective from beginning on, and herein lie the chances. Just your polticians shall not mess up things and make wrong decisions now, for you have no margin for error left.

Good luck, Britain!

To leave a block where one had an economy as strong as the 18 weakest economies of the block together, but still having only the same say on things than each and every single one of these dwarf economies individually, is no shame, but an act of reason.

Only time will tell Sky but fingers crossed it will all pan out well in the future.

[Catfish]

German papers are not quite convinced of a success (and not all share Skybird's view, who would have thunk). Some thoughtful articles, not quite as loud or pompous.
bad translations courtesy of Google

Die Zeit:
Today self-righteousness rules

Der Spiegel:
The promise from the thriving counties

[Jimbuna]

I think I know one person who will definitely be celebrating

[Catfish]

Give him a slap on the back, shake his hand, smile for the camera. And then, finally, watch him leave. There's a silver lining on every dark cloud.


As usual the comments say it all

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Google Translator still does not process links currently, at least over here, but the text could be entered itself again. Here is the piece I linked on the page before.


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With great regularity, two myths about Brexit are cultivated in the German media that are at war with reality.



Myth 1: Boris Johnson is a madman, so to speak the industrial accident in British history.

The fact is: Boris Johnson is not the exception, but the rule in British history. If Winston Churchill were still alive, he would be in the Johnson camp today. At midnight, when the island empire solemnly leaves the EU, he hovers as a brother over Downing Street No. 10th

In his legendary speech to the University of Zurich in 1946, Churchill urged the Europeans to join forces:

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe."

But he exempted one country from this construction: his own. If you listened closely at that time, you were presented with exactly that view of continental Europe that is still valid today:

"Great Britain, the mighty America and, I hope, Soviet Russia must be friends and promoters of the new Europe."

Friends and supporters, not relatives. And Churchill had already laid down his definition of a global but sovereign country in 1930:

“The country has its own dreams and tasks. We do not belong to a single continent, but to everyone. ”

He stayed with it. In 1951 he said to his German counterpart Konrad Adenauer:

"You can rest assured that Great Britain will always stand by Europe."

Adenauer, a chancellor who understood the nuance, recognized the distance:

"Prime Minister, I'm a little disappointed. England is part of Europe. "

Britain is regaining its independence tonight. After 47 years in the European Union, London celebrates the event with a big firework display.


Myth 2: Britain would pay for this insubordination by losing jobs and wealth. There is currently no evidence of this, on the contrary:

► The investors in the City of London are euphoric. They hope for a country freed from the Brussels bureaucracy and thus for a regulatory arbitrage. The Bundesbank's Executive Board, Joachim Wuermeling, understood that. He warns the EU of a "kind of offshore financial center in Europe".

► New bilateral trade agreements with the USA, Canada or Australia are intended to give new impetus to the British economy, which in 2019 was already growing almost twice as fast as the German economy. "I am incredibly confident about the next five years," said James Hanbury, portfolio manager at Odey Asset Management.

► Great Britain is not as dependent on the internal market as Germany. Although the country does half of its foreign trade with the European Union, the trade balance shows a loss-making business. In 2018, the deficit was 107.4 billion euros against the EU.



Most valuable British company sees the Brexit calmly

► Great Britain - freed from a politicized EU foreign trade policy - can now devote itself to doing business with difficult countries such as Iran and China. Johnson's decision to involve the Chinese communications group Huawei in building the 5G network was the first weather light.

► The most valuable British company, the banking multi HSBC, sees the Brexit calmly. The most important market beyond the home country is Asia. The bank is represented in the EU with HSBC France and Trinkaus & Burkhardt in Düsseldorf. From the manager's point of view, Europe doesn't have to be more.

► US President Trump wants to help the British with a "robust" trade agreement. Johnson is banking on an economic expansion of the “special relationship”.

Conclusion: We do not have to celebrate the exit of the British, but we have to understand it. Great Britain's stay in the EU was in our interests, but ultimately no longer theirs. The German media should remember: they have to serve to find the truth, not the negotiating position of the EU Commission.

(...)

The British may not be paying a high price for Brexit, but us

Brexit tears a gap of up to ten billion euros on the EU's revenue side. Barley demands that all EU members must pay for the future British contribution:

“The contribution from all member states should increase. We have to make up for it. It's clear to everyone. "

Germany as the largest contributor is likely to be particularly challenged. History can be so ironic: it is perhaps not the British who pay a high price for Brexit, but us.




https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland..._11612918.html

[Skybird]

And another opinion piece in the same newspaper, Focus. Again I agree with the author obviously.


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The Brexit is coming. The uncertainty of the past three and a half years has turned into certainty. In line with Boris Johnson's slogan, the German economy is now getting brexit done. The economist Dr. explains which changes Germany should adjust to. Daniel Stelter.

First of all: I am not a friend of Brexit. I think Brexit is very unfortunate - especially from a German perspective. Nevertheless, the most important finding is to be accepted, namely that Brexit is of great importance for Germany and will probably not lead the British to disaster in the long term. With all concerns, there are also many signs that Brexit can become a successful model for Great Britain.

The super state in Brussels is perceived as not only democratic on the British island. With Brexit, London can set itself apart in regulatory terms. The economic outlook is not too bad: Britain's economy has grown faster in recent years than Germany's, for example. Great Britain benefits from the fact that it is home to the world language and is therefore attractive to qualified immigrants. Great Britain also has excellent universities and outstanding schools, especially in the private sector. London has a very lively start-up scene. Combined with simple rules for setting up a company, less bureaucracy and competitive tax rates, the Brexit can be a relief. Certainly not in the short term, but in the long term it is.
Germany has a lot to lose

Against this background, the countries of the European Union, especially Germany, have a lot to lose. This is especially true if it is not possible to sign a contract in good time for future relations between the EU and Great Britain. Boris Johnson has a clear idea of ​​when this free trade agreement will be closed by the end of 2020. His negotiating position is stronger than most mainland citizens believe. I am convinced that there must be a contract between the EU and the UK.

Great Britain is a large sales market and if this sales market ceases to exist, the EU will be hit very hard and Germany will be hit particularly hard. We Germans alone export goods worth 85 billion euros to the UK. The German automotive industry plays a large part in this, as it has to fight hard for its supremacy after the diesel scandal and overslept electromobility. British tariffs would be another fiasco for German car manufacturers. After all, Great Britain is the second largest export market in the world for them. But not only Germany would suffer damage without a contract. Britain's economic power is just as great as that of the 20 smallest EU countries. Hardly any country can do without this partner, issues relating to fishing rights, trade and the exchange of services are far too elementary.

It is time for Germany to show its colors. Within the EU, Germany has often been hiding behind Britain in recent decades, in the expectation that the British will stop making unpleasant decisions. Contrary to its tradition, Germany must now clearly and clearly stand up for its own interests. The Lisbon Treaty establishes quorums so that neither the northerners nor the southerners have a majority. With the UK's exit, it will be possible for France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to prevail against the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden. We will already experience the new balance of power in the forthcoming EU budget negotiations.
Boris Johnson could quickly face a hard Brexit

The withdrawal agreement for the island nation initially provides for a transition phase of one year, but can be extended again from December 31, 2020 to December 31, 2022. Boris Johnson should not want this. He is more likely to face a hard Brexit than a scenario to make concessions in the negotiations. The short deadline is packed with important points, because by the end of the transition phase it is important to agree on a trade agreement, regulate long-term relationships and avoid customs duties wherever possible.



There is a lot for Europe: According to an analysis by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW), the United Kingdom could impose significant tariffs on goods imported from the EU without a free trade agreement. According to the latest calculations, this would be 49 billion euros for 2018. There would then be no secure framework conditions for services. In particular, financial services could no longer be offered to one another. On the other hand, Brussels would only receive EUR 6.7 billion in taxation of British imports. Such a situation would have a clear winner and that would not be the European Union.
The EU is tough on its interests

The EU is tough on its interests, as Ms. von der Leyen said recently. In a lecture at the London Stock Exchange in London, she said: “But the truth is that our partnership cannot and will not be the same as before. And it cannot and will not be as narrow as it used to be - because every decision has consequences. With every decision comes a compromise. Without the free movement of people, there can be no free movement of capital, goods and services. Without a level playing field in the areas of environment, labor, taxes and state aid, you cannot have high quality access to the largest single market in the world. The more differences there are, the further the partnership must be. And without extending the transition period beyond 2020, you can't expect to agree on every aspect of our new partnership. We will have to set priorities. The objectives of the European Union in the negotiations are clear. We will work for solutions that preserve the integrity of the EU, its internal market and its customs union. There can be no compromises here. "

French EU negotiator Michel Barnier said right at the beginning of the year: “Nobody, nobody should doubt the Commission's determination and my determination to continue to defend the interests of EU27 citizens and businesses and to defend the integrity of the internal market. (...) ".

From the UK's perspective, there can be no interest in accepting all the EU rules, as the President of the Commission envisages, because then you could have stayed in the EU. For the British, above all for Boris Johnson, the attraction lies in the fact that they differ positively: different and less regulation, autonomy with immigration, cheaper taxes etc. Boris Johnson will continue the successful strategy of the past few months. He strengthens his negotiating position and now has a large majority in parliament. His threat of a hard Brexit is therefore realistic.

Still, we should be grateful to the British for warning us. It is time for reform. The worst thing that can happen is that the EU continues as before. Britain shows that there are alternatives. Let’s switch from shock to action mode. We will experience a highly volatile year: with a rollercoaster ride on stock exchanges and foreign exchange markets, depending on which news is coming from the negotiation rooms. In the end there will be a deal. I am convinced of this, even if it is one in which certain things are specified afterwards.


https://www.focus.de/finanzen/boerse..._11612773.html


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For I hope it breaks the European complecancy and megalomania and severly disrupts the march into the planned economy regime and growing tax slavery: I hope the Brits give plenty of headaches to Brussels. Plenty of headaches, and then much more of the same, please!

[Skybird]

And this is a nice piec eon the to-be-expected collison of the low tax coun try UK and the high tax - not to say: maximum tax - country Germany. Anothe rreason why I welcome the raise of a low tax oasis right offshore the eU's coastline:


https://translate.google.de/translat...erpolitik.html

[mapuc]

I call those of my friends who live outside UK and who use to talk to our members from UK.

You have to establish a continues phone line with them(From 2400 British time and until 0600 British time).

This in case if UK sink down into a sinkhole, during the night.

If this should happen, and according to those doomsday predictor it will, we need to create a rescue team.

Markus

[Skybird]

The net paying members of the EU tonight loose the blocking majority (due to the prionciple of double majority) in the EU minister council and can no longer block decisions made by the net receiving majority wanting a money transfer from the first to the latter.

So who is in a sinkhole here?

[Skybird]

German CSU-politician Manffred Weber, rival to Super-Uschi for becoming EU president before Macronman shot him down, had a moment of bright brilliance today when summing it up shortly what it all is about. He said: "Wird der Brexit gefühlt ein Erfolg, ist das der Anfang vom Ende der EU." - "If Brexit is felt to be a success, it is the beginning of the end of the EU."

The "negotiations" will be led accordingly: to prevent Brexit becoming a success. A successful UK is not in the interest of the EU - a crashing UK is. The more miserable the UK does, the better for the EU. I think Johnson knows this. And will not play ball.

[Skybird]

At least this he got right: "this new political experiment that we originally thought was a common market and that we now know is a political union". And: "Brexit is a victory of ordinary people against the establishment."

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And: "Brexit is a victory of ordinary people against the establishment."

You forgot what he said next, directly after this, and his face speaks volumes. He clearly despises them. I also have difficulties to imagine Mr. Murdoch as the "non-establishment"