UK Politics Thread - Page 825

Catfish · 01-29-20, 01:58 PM

What will the EU only do without Farage? The only serious and competent man in whole Europe. So constructive and selfless. But even worse, what will Farage do now?

In one thing in his 'speech' he is right, it was populism against globalism, and populism has won. I would not take this as a compliment but hey, i don't have to live there.

Skybird · 01-29-20, 02:41 PM

Brexit 2.0: Escape from the Scottish Embrace

I do not rate globalism over populism. Both are not good, and globalism has way more local loosers than state media usually admit. All in all I see the total balance of gobalisation negative if watching at the bigger, complete picture. Changing of human societies and civilzation has not kept up with it, and maybe never can keep up with it.

So its running to specs-heavy software on too old hardware, so to speak. Does not work well, can never work well. Must stutter.

Maybe its like with upper limits in size that can be reached by biological organisms when growng. Too long neurons slowing down body coordination. Too much mass that needs to be moved by too small muscle. Too high calory demands. And so fiorth.

Catfish · 01-29-20, 03:33 PM

^ i tend to agree, maybe the Anspruch is too high for us humans. But to say that the project was too ambitious is again sooo elitist

Hear hear! Britain will be free! No slave of the tyrant EU anymore!! Rejoice!!! On to glorious times!!!!
So lets give the EU a good thrashing and back home for eggs and bacon, stiff upper lip and all that what? Egad! Godspeed! Ye foul mustachio'd purple hued maltworms, brazen palsied Flapdragons!! For King and country Chaps, Land of Hope and Glory, We few, we happy few.....once more unto the breach ... follow your spirit; and upon this charge, cry 'God for Farage! England! and Saint George!'

edit2 i regret nothing

How can you argue or negotiate with a "John Bull who is fond of having his own way, till you let him have it"?

Seriously, there was no problem with the EU in 2015 until it was somehow invented out of the blue by the likes of Farage. "Brexit" was a non-theme before 2016, when right wingers and like-minded media tycoons decided to change that. No one would have spent a second thought about it without this pushing behind the curtains, and outspoken populism.

There were problems, but nothing compared to what was lied and made of it, from swinging plastic-packed cods to banana's curvatures.
I wonder what the next pushed "big thing" will be

JU_88 · 01-30-20, 04:25 AM

"Seriously, there was no problem with the EU in 2015 until it was somehow invented out of the blue by the likes of Farage."

Are you joking?! Seriously, I'd urge you to research that one a bit deeper mate. Or just cast you mind back to 2008 & 2012 and thats just for starters. just because you didnt see/read/acknowlege it in your own media diet at the time - doesnt mean it didnt exist.
2015 is when it maybe came to ahead, but Euro skeptism was bubbling away for many, many years before that.

Skybird · 01-30-20, 04:47 AM

If only the EU would have stayed to be a EEC, a shared market place, a free trade zone.

But as always when these kinds of state-like thigns raise their ugly heads, they inevitably turn for higher and higher ambitions to claim more and more powers. Everything and everyone is always eager to run and reach beyond his original mandate.

As many lies Farange et. al may have told - the EU tells as many lies if not more. It cheats and brakes its own rules, it villates its own laws and ignores its own treaties.Brakes its own laws, treaties, promises, claims.

To hell with them all.

JU_88 · 01-30-20, 04:59 AM

Yeah
Started as trading bloc - went on to indroduce its own currency and bank, court, laws parliment, now it wants a military. Not sure how clued up people were on its intentions 20-30 years ago. The EU ever deliberately mislead anyone on its intent to create a super state - That is what the project was always intended to do (over time.) but when something is implemented slowly (creeping, peice by peice,) and wrapped up in lengthy jargon, people will more likley of sleepwalk into accepting it -and not read the small print. -Especially if there is some short term gain.
Classic case of 'I didnt read the terms & conditions because it was too long and boring'

Anyway soem good news for the UK is that we wont be implimenting the EU's horrible Article 13 post brexit, whatever happens - at least we dodged that bullet:P
Few care about that now, but come June 2021 when the reality hits - people will be shouting from the roof tops about it i expect.

Skybird · 01-30-20, 09:45 AM

"Sleepwalking" is a fitting term here.

And maybe its no coincidencen that a famous book about the dawning of WWI also was entitled "The Sleepwalkers". Then, Stefan Zweig described the attitude and Zeitgeist of Austrians before WW1 also as that of sleepwalkers. The EU must not necessariyl end up in a WWIII, and I doubt it will, but both the EU and the ECB by now create far more of the opposite of what they ambitiously claims they want, and what they accheive. And what they acchieve is plenty of alienation, groweing separation, polarization, and nationalistc sentiments as a reaction of self-defence against the coup d'etat that is conducted by Brussel in timelapse.

How could it be any different. The eU always has been no project of desire and hearft by the people, but an intellectual hobby by self-proclaimed elites and "progressive" "intellectuals". In Eastern Eruoppe and in Russia both people and plticians understand clearer the corrosive effect of this on the people'S felt and historticlly grown self-identity. And haviugn escaped oen Soviet Union, they are not to eager to submit to a second Sovjit Union, this time enforced not by Moscow, but Brussels. And once again it is "the cadres against the people."

A goiant soplcial engineering expeirment. Like gender nutheads think there is no biloigcal gender and nos coial gender, Brussels thinks there is no such thing like a cultural self-identity, at leats not one that can not be replaced at will with an testtube creation of a party-wanted identity.

In principle it is the same kind of thing like China does, just run with less obvious brutla violence, but neverthegless poiszuhed with as adamant merciless determination: to secure powers for the party establishement by reedcuating the masses and forming the kind of legitimising voters that are wanted by the fat cats in politics and industry. Econimic factors must be kept at certain comfort levelös to oprevent ther pleby going nuts and risking an uprise, but that means for maintaining such economic conditions anything goes, and culture and identoity play no role.

There is no bioliogcal gender. There is no cultural own history. There is no own identity. We are all the same! Who would dare to object to this flowery phrasing? Aren't you for "human rights", arent you in favour of "social justice" and "equality"...? Tz tz tz, naughty boy you are, I dont speak with you any more, you are bad! I only talk with good people!

Sleepwalkers are all over the place. Fridays for future, Pro EU, Merkel's moral claqueurs, migrant activists, energy turnaround, kickjumping out of nuclear power, the shabby status of the Bundeswehr (that a latest report describes as at being at the level of 2018 again, which was the worst years of its quality measuring era), Berlin repürpoting operational readiness of batallions and briugades to NATO HQ that do not even exist, human rights in China, solving the Palestinian question, gender nutheads, fascismo feminists, language Gleichschaltung... the list could be extended.

California has the San Adreas trench. Europe has its progressives. Its not yet clear which of the two potentially holds greater destructive power.

Catfish · 01-30-20, 10:35 AM

While i do not really disagree, what is 'culture' for you?
Isn't culture what you learn, discover and come to believe, instead of being a genetic thing?
Every living thing on this earth is, while having some pre-generated features (like being a human instead of a worm, though there may be similarities in some), being formed by environment and learning. Do you think a french farmer or an english or whoever is being born with a national identity, or some belief that cannot be changed by external influence?

Jimbuna · 01-30-20, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

If only the EU would have stayed to be a EEC, a shared market place, a free trade zone.

My sentiments entirely

Jimbuna · 01-30-20, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Juncker: Boris Johnson is 'a tough guy' but I like him
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson had been "very open, very frank" in the Brexit negotiations, the former European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said.

"There is no theatre around the positions he has taken both in his negotiations with the Commission or in his talks with the European Council," he told Hardtalk’s Stephen Sackur.

Mr Juncker said the prime minister had been "using some lies" in the run up to the Brexit vote in 2016.

"I didn't like him during the referendum campaign, but I liked him as a prime minister," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...but-i-like-him

High praise indeed, especially as he appeared sober at the time.

mapuc · 01-30-20, 12:18 PM

Here, depending which company who have made those polls, the resistans against EU goes up and down.

In some the Pro-EU voters are in lead and in some the Anti-EU is in lead.

However and here comes the interesting thing.

99 % of those who's against EU put they vote on Parties or politicians who are more or less against EU.

There's no Party in the Danish Parliament who have a wish of pulling Denmark out of EU.

The same goes for Sweden.

Markus

STEED · 01-30-20, 05:15 PM

Friend i know will be in London celebrating brexit tomorrow night. I will not be wasting my time or money on this crass event.

JU_88 · 01-30-20, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Friend i know will be in London celebrating brexit tomorrow night. I will not be wasting my time or money on this crass event.

Agreed, i wouldn't celebrate something when I dont yet know the outcome.

Skybird · 01-31-20, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

While i do not really disagree, what is 'culture' for you?
Isn't culture what you learn, discover and come to believe, instead of being a genetic thing?
Every living thing on this earth is, while having some pre-generated features (like being a human instead of a worm, though there may be similarities in some), being formed by environment and learning. Do you think a french farmer or an english or whoever is being born with a national identity, or some belief that cannot be changed by external influence?

Culture is a collective biography forming tradtions and ways of life and attitudes and values that are unique for this and no other biography. It is as unique as a fingerprint. And since you mentioned egentic, where have I said somethign of egnetics? Your childhood memories are not genetically encoded already, still they make you the man you are today. And no way you could ever be like me or somebody else - except on a theatre stage for the duration of a play.

Lack of own sense of identity, can even be of clinical-psychiatric relevance, both on the individual as well as the collective level.

Skybird · 01-31-20, 04:43 AM

Today'S the day. A rough ride is to be expected in the imminent and medium future, but this has been about the longterm perspective from beginning on, and herein lie the chances. Just your polticians shall not mess up things and make wrong decisions now, for you have no margin for error left.

Good luck, Britain!

To leave a block where one had an economy as strong as the 18 weakest economies of the block together, but still having only the same say on things than each and every single one of these dwarf economies individually, is no shame, but an act of reason.

P.S.
https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland..._11612918.html
Google Translator is down over here currently, so try your luck yourself.

Quote:

Wir müssen den Austritt der Briten nicht feiern, aber verstehen. Der Verbleib Großbritanniens in der EU entsprach unseren Interessen, aber zuletzt nicht mehr den ihren. Die deutschen Medien sollten sich besinnen: Sie haben der Wahrheitsfindung zu dienen, nicht der Verhandlungsposition der EU-Kommission.

01-29-20, 01:58 PM	#12361
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,934 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	What will the EU only do without Farage? The only serious and competent man in whole Europe. So constructive and selfless. But even worse, what will Farage do now? In one thing in his 'speech' he is right, it was populism against globalism, and populism has won. I would not take this as a compliment but hey, i don't have to live there. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

01-29-20, 02:41 PM	#12362
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Brexit 2.0: Escape from the Scottish Embrace I do not rate globalism over populism. Both are not good, and globalism has way more local loosers than state media usually admit. All in all I see the total balance of gobalisation negative if watching at the bigger, complete picture. Changing of human societies and civilzation has not kept up with it, and maybe never can keep up with it. So its running to specs-heavy software on too old hardware, so to speak. Does not work well, can never work well. Must stutter. Maybe its like with upper limits in size that can be reached by biological organisms when growng. Too long neurons slowing down body coordination. Too much mass that needs to be moved by too small muscle. Too high calory demands. And so fiorth. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-29-20, 03:33 PM	#12363
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,934 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ i tend to agree, maybe the Anspruch is too high for us humans. But to say that the project was too ambitious is again sooo elitist Hear hear! Britain will be free! No slave of the tyrant EU anymore!! Rejoice!!! On to glorious times!!!! So lets give the EU a good thrashing and back home for eggs and bacon, stiff upper lip and all that what? Egad! Godspeed! Ye foul mustachio'd purple hued maltworms, brazen palsied Flapdragons!! For King and country Chaps, Land of Hope and Glory, We few, we happy few.....once more unto the breach ... follow your spirit; and upon this charge, cry 'God for Farage! England! and Saint George!' edit2 i regret nothing How can you argue or negotiate with a "John Bull who is fond of having his own way, till you let him have it"? Seriously, there was no problem with the EU in 2015 until it was somehow invented out of the blue by the likes of Farage. "Brexit" was a non-theme before 2016, when right wingers and like-minded media tycoons decided to change that. No one would have spent a second thought about it without this pushing behind the curtains, and outspoken populism. There were problems, but nothing compared to what was lied and made of it, from swinging plastic-packed cods to banana's curvatures. I wonder what the next pushed "big thing" will be __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 01-30-20 at 05:00 AM.*

01-30-20, 04:25 AM	#12364
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,750 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	"Seriously, there was no problem with the EU in 2015 until it was somehow invented out of the blue by the likes of Farage." Are you joking?! Seriously, I'd urge you to research that one a bit deeper mate. Or just cast you mind back to 2008 & 2012 and thats just for starters. just because you didnt see/read/acknowlege it in your own media diet at the time - doesnt mean it didnt exist. 2015 is when it maybe came to ahead, but Euro skeptism was bubbling away for many, many years before that. Last edited by JU_88; 01-30-20 at 04:51 AM.

01-30-20, 04:47 AM	#12365
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	If only the EU would have stayed to be a EEC, a shared market place, a free trade zone. But as always when these kinds of state-like thigns raise their ugly heads, they inevitably turn for higher and higher ambitions to claim more and more powers. Everything and everyone is always eager to run and reach beyond his original mandate. As many lies Farange et. al may have told - the EU tells as many lies if not more. It cheats and brakes its own rules, it villates its own laws and ignores its own treaties.Brakes its own laws, treaties, promises, claims. To hell with them all. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-30-20, 04:59 AM	#12366
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,750 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Yeah Started as trading bloc - went on to indroduce its own currency and bank, court, laws parliment, now it wants a military. Not sure how clued up people were on its intentions 20-30 years ago. The EU ever deliberately mislead anyone on its intent to create a super state - That is what the project was always intended to do (over time.) but when something is implemented slowly (creeping, peice by peice,) and wrapped up in lengthy jargon, people will more likley of sleepwalk into accepting it -and not read the small print. -Especially if there is some short term gain. Classic case of 'I didnt read the terms & conditions because it was too long and boring' Anyway soem good news for the UK is that we wont be implimenting the EU's horrible Article 13 post brexit, whatever happens - at least we dodged that bullet:P Few care about that now, but come June 2021 when the reality hits - people will be shouting from the roof tops about it i expect. Last edited by JU_88; 01-30-20 at 05:20 AM.

01-30-20, 09:45 AM	#12367
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	"Sleepwalking" is a fitting term here. And maybe its no coincidencen that a famous book about the dawning of WWI also was entitled "The Sleepwalkers". Then, Stefan Zweig described the attitude and Zeitgeist of Austrians before WW1 also as that of sleepwalkers. The EU must not necessariyl end up in a WWIII, and I doubt it will, but both the EU and the ECB by now create far more of the opposite of what they ambitiously claims they want, and what they accheive. And what they acchieve is plenty of alienation, groweing separation, polarization, and nationalistc sentiments as a reaction of self-defence against the coup d'etat that is conducted by Brussel in timelapse. How could it be any different. The eU always has been no project of desire and hearft by the people, but an intellectual hobby by self-proclaimed elites and "progressive" "intellectuals". In Eastern Eruoppe and in Russia both people and plticians understand clearer the corrosive effect of this on the people'S felt and historticlly grown self-identity. And haviugn escaped oen Soviet Union, they are not to eager to submit to a second Sovjit Union, this time enforced not by Moscow, but Brussels. And once again it is "the cadres against the people." A goiant soplcial engineering expeirment. Like gender nutheads think there is no biloigcal gender and nos coial gender, Brussels thinks there is no such thing like a cultural self-identity, at leats not one that can not be replaced at will with an testtube creation of a party-wanted identity. In principle it is the same kind of thing like China does, just run with less obvious brutla violence, but neverthegless poiszuhed with as adamant merciless determination: to secure powers for the party establishement by reedcuating the masses and forming the kind of legitimising voters that are wanted by the fat cats in politics and industry. Econimic factors must be kept at certain comfort levelös to oprevent ther pleby going nuts and risking an uprise, but that means for maintaining such economic conditions anything goes, and culture and identoity play no role. There is no bioliogcal gender. There is no cultural own history. There is no own identity. We are all the same! Who would dare to object to this flowery phrasing? Aren't you for "human rights", arent you in favour of "social justice" and "equality"...? Tz tz tz, naughty boy you are, I dont speak with you any more, you are bad! I only talk with good people! Sleepwalkers are all over the place. Fridays for future, Pro EU, Merkel's moral claqueurs, migrant activists, energy turnaround, kickjumping out of nuclear power, the shabby status of the Bundeswehr (that a latest report describes as at being at the level of 2018 again, which was the worst years of its quality measuring era), Berlin repürpoting operational readiness of batallions and briugades to NATO HQ that do not even exist, human rights in China, solving the Palestinian question, gender nutheads, fascismo feminists, language Gleichschaltung... the list could be extended. California has the San Adreas trench. Europe has its progressives. Its not yet clear which of the two potentially holds greater destructive power. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-30-20, 10:35 AM	#12368
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,934 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	While i do not really disagree, what is 'culture' for you? Isn't culture what you learn, discover and come to believe, instead of being a genetic thing? Every living thing on this earth is, while having some pre-generated features (like being a human instead of a worm, though there may be similarities in some), being formed by environment and learning. Do you think a french farmer or an english or whoever is being born with a national identity, or some belief that cannot be changed by external influence? __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

01-30-20, 12:18 PM	#12371
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,276 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Here, depending which company who have made those polls, the resistans against EU goes up and down. In some the Pro-EU voters are in lead and in some the Anti-EU is in lead. However and here comes the interesting thing. 99 % of those who's against EU put they vote on Parties or politicians who are more or less against EU. There's no Party in the Danish Parliament who have a wish of pulling Denmark out of EU. The same goes for Sweden. Markus

01-30-20, 05:15 PM	#12372
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Friend i know will be in London celebrating brexit tomorrow night. I will not be wasting my time or money on this crass event. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!