Why I've decided not to buy, or own, SH5 (and I hope Ubi reads this)

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by krashkart

*crawls out from under his bridge*


My favorite SH was probably SH3. The hospital level was downright creepy with all those zombie nurses clumsily firing at me with their magnums.


*swipes a sheep from robbo, bites a leg off and trudges back under the bridge*






Dang! Channing's was better.

And you know I didn't mean you either lol

(Loved Silent Hill BTW)

[robbo180265]

@schlechter pfennig,

This is a quote from Tom Coefield the editor of SimHq and the person who wrote the review.

Originally Posted by SimHq Tom Cofield

If they patch it, and if they do something about the DRM, and once the game is heavily modded then I might just do a re-review of the title. This is a game that could be absolutely outstanding, actually fantastic because the base is there for an outstanding game. Just like SHIII and IV, this is a game that shipped incomplete but unlike SHIII or IV this game has some serious detractions that hurt the game significantly. Luckily a lot of it can be fixed.

You can read the whole post here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=12

Isn't this what we've been saying all along?

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

But one of the most, if not the most, recognized attraction of SHIII, was the random, dynamic campaign, and I can't help but feel that, somewhere along the line, Ubisoft missed the boat (no pun intended).

This is an almost classic example of why reviews, while not unimportant, should never be the sole criteria when judging a game. In other words, why it is important to have actually played the game to understand.

Far be it from me to put words in Tom's mouth but what he was describing is the structure of the campaign, not the actual day-by-day playing of the campaign.

The SH5 campaign system is much more dynamic and random than Sh3 or SH4. Unlike it's predecessors, when you set up shop in a particular area the merchants don't just keep coming and coming. In the future they will change their routing to avoid your more successful patrol areas.

Unlike SH3 and SH4 when you sink a particular well known ship (ie The King George), 10 more of them don't show up in future patrols. Once they are gone, they are gone.

The campaign play is much more random than any of the other Silent Hunters. Add to that that your actions have now have actual consequences and you have a much better game.

What people are focussing on is the structure (ie mission objectives and tonnage requirements) that are added on top of the game. What isn't mentioned is that these are not required. Go anywhere you want, sink anything you want and the campaign will progress. It's just that it will progress differently that it would have if you did hit your objectives.

This type of misinterpertation is common but it is also the exact reason why people who have played the game get so frustrated by people who have not but insist on talking about things that they do no understand based on a review that either didn't get what was going on or, more likely, that based it's assumptions on other reviews before they even looked at the game (and I am definitely NOT talking about Tom's review here).

You want an indepth review from someone who knows what they are talking about and spent the time to understand what was going on? Read Neal's. Then if you still don't want to purchase the game, you will be making an informed decision.

JCC

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

And you know I didn't mean you either lol

(Loved Silent Hill BTW)

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

I understand why some of you are upset that someone who doesn't own the game and hasn't played it is rendering an opinion about the game. I would like to point out that if 18 out of 20 people whose opinions I respect have a negative opinion about something, be it a steak, car, or game, I don't see any reason to buy said steak just to prove that, yes indeed, it tastes and smells like liver.

I'd also like to point out the following, taken from reviews written by SimHQ . . . who have played the game.

SH3: The Heart and Soul of Silent Hunter III is the 'Dynamic Random Campaign'. To quote the manual, "The game uses a dynamic, random campaign engine based on historical reality. Every time you play, you can have a unique career"

The Silent Hunter III world is a replica of the one of 1939 to 1945. The shipping lanes and the volume and type of traffic will reflect that of the war and changes over the years. Countries will historically be neutral, your enemy or your ally or all the above as the war progresses.

I came to Silent Hunter III with hope and modest expectations. Silent Hunter III has exceeded my expectations in so many ways with the stunning graphics, a crew, a good sailing model, a Dynamic Random Campaign based upon real shipping lanes and convoy routes, AI that responds to your presence and changeable weather.

A finished Silent Hunter III will be a very strong contender for "Sim of the Year", if not "Game of the Year" and would be the undisputed king of U-Boat / submarine simulations.

SH5: The campaign structure is fairly simple. You start out as a young U-boat commander in 1939 and you work your way through to 1943, gradually upgrading your boat. Once you get done with the initial campaign around the British Isles, you can select different segments of the campaign based upon your peaked interest, and upon the success you have in the initial setup. It eventually culminates in the disaster that was 1943, when the Allies finally started getting the upper hand on the U-boat threat.

But tempered with these achievements are some serious problems that badly need to be resolved. The game is currently a buggy nightmare in some critical areas. Certainly there are bugs with all games, and some are forgivable, but some of the bugs in Silent Hunter 5 are near showstoppers. There are already some mods released that will correct some of the deficiencies in the game, but the fact that the second patch — the one that is supposed to correct many of these problems — is delayed once again means players that bought the game in good faith are still waiting for fixes that shouldn’t have been in the gold release.

Once players can get past these issues, there is a potential for a lot of fun with this game. There is a lot of good here and I honestly think that if Silent Hunter 5 follows the series history and is patched adequately, this will be a winner. Sadly, the fact is for right now, I cannot recommend Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic in its current condition.

Now this is a professional reviewer. If I was indecicive about buying SH5 and decided not to do so based upon the review, would I be naive and gullible? Then why should I value my fellow subsimmers' opinions any less? In fact, I value theirs' more so.

I am tremendously impressed by the graphics examples I've seen. Heck, some of them appear to be almost photo quality! Makes me drool, in fact, and I'm greatly envious.

But one of the most, if not the most, recognized attraction of SHIII, was the random, dynamic campaign, and I can't help but feel that, somewhere along the line, Ubisoft missed the boat (no pun intended).

Again this just proves my point, you have no interest in learning the truth about SH5, you are just interested in advancing your preconceived notions about the game.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by gord96

i purchased the game yesterday and was pleasantly surprised that most of the negative posts on this forum are exaggerations. i had a good time with the game last night. sure it has bugs and shame on UBI for not testing it more, but as always a few mods and it runs very nice! of course people can say they wont support UBI because of all the bugs and i can see their point. But I like sub sims, and really there is no other option. I have played SH3 w/GWX to death. Already I see way more potential in SHV. A few patches and some more mods and it will be awesome.

Anyways, back to the open seas...

enjoy, it will only get better. For a real challenge, try the "Pedestal" single mission.

[Moeceefus]

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

No, not better. I don't need to buy a copy of any Derek Smart game to know that it's going to be ****ing terrible. I can rely on many hundreds of professional and user-created reviews and previews, I can look it up on metacritic, I can ask my friends.
Similarly: I did not need to buy SH5 to know that it would be a bug-ridden pile of **** - SH3 and SH4 already set that standard, and lo - I was right.

You see, Humans have an ability to learn based on past experiences, and the unique ability to use their imagination to predict (with some accuracy) the outcome of future events based on this experience. It's a survival instinct that separates us from the Animals.

Well, it separates me from the animals. I'm not too sure about you, since you're only capable of learning through direct experience.

FIRE IS HOT!?

you cant do any better can you? we are talking about a video game here. are you aware of this? it has nothing to do with the survival of a species or fire being hot. what foolish comparisons. i've played many a game, watched many a movie that recieved glowing reviews and i have hated them. when it comes to entertainment, people have to decide for themselves personally based on thier own likes and dislikes. if you need to rely on others to tell you what to enjoy or not, then you are an even bigger idiot than your posts already indicate. all of you people coming here to post trash about a game you dont own and have never played have deeper issues besides being misinformed drones. anyways, troll and flame on till its locked i guess, if thats what floats your boat.

[John Channing]

Gentlemen, let's watch the language and personal attacks, ok?

JCC

[MILLANDSON]

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

you cant do any better can you? we are talking about a video game here. are you aware of this? it has nothing to do with the survival of a species or fire being hot. what foolish comparisons. i've played many a game, watched many a movie that recieved glowing reviews and i have hated them. when it comes to entertainment, people have to decide for themselves personally based on thier own likes and dislikes. if you need to rely on others to tell you what to enjoy or not, then you are an even bigger idiot than your posts already indicate. all of you people coming here to post trash about a game you dont own and have never played have deeper issues besides being misinformed drones. anyways, troll and flame on till its locked i guess, if thats what floats your boat.

I totally agree. Whilst, yes, reviews and comments from friends and the like can be useful in coming to a decision, I, like you, have loved movies that others have hated (the Transformers movies for one, I thought they were brilliant), and hated movies others have loved. Everyone has their own specific tastes and preferences, and using solely the tastes and preferences of another person, no matter how objective they attempt to be, is flawed, in my opinion.

The only way to know if you truly like something or not is to try it for yourself. There is no substitute for it.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

you cant do any better can you? we are talking about a video game here. are you aware of this? it has nothing to do with the survival of a species or fire being hot. what foolish comparisons. i've played many a game, watched many a movie that recieved glowing reviews and i have hated them. when it comes to entertainment, people have to decide for themselves personally based on thier own likes and dislikes. if you need to rely on others to tell you what to enjoy or not, then you are an even bigger idiot than your posts already indicate. all of you people coming here to post trash about a game you dont own and have never played have deeper issues besides being misinformed drones. anyways, troll and flame on till its locked i guess, if thats what floats your boat.

Actually, you're talking about a 'video game'. I've been consistently referring to a promised simulation that falls short of my expectations. And I haven't been depending upon anyone to inform me as to whether or not I'd enjoy SH5. I've been using their comments, critiques and criticisms to determine just what said 'product' delivers.

And the fact that you feel a need to refer to me as 'a misinformed drone' and to insinuate that I've been 'posting trash' speaks more volumes about your character than it does the rationale behind my original post.

As to the majority of the other respondents here, I've deeply appreciated your comments, critiques, suggestions and advice.

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

First off, I need to make clear two things: one is that I don't own SH5, nor have I played it at all.

.

Well I stopped reading after reading that............

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

Actually, you're talking about a 'video game'. I've been consistently referring to a promised simulation that falls short of my expectations. And I haven't been depending upon anyone to inform me as to whether or not I'd enjoy SH5. I've been using their comments, critiques and criticisms to determine just what said 'product' delivers.

And the fact that you feel a need to refer to me as 'a misinformed drone' and to insinuate that I've been 'posting trash' speaks more volumes about your character than it does the rationale behind my original post.

As to the majority of the other respondents here, I've deeply appreciated your comments, critiques, suggestions and advice.

And I'm interested in any comments you may have about my post?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=111

Mainly because you chose that review

[Brag]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

Actually, you're talking about a 'video game'. I've been consistently referring to a promised simulation that falls short of my expectations. And I haven't been depending upon anyone to inform me as to whether or not I'd enjoy SH5. I've been using their comments, critiques and criticisms to determine just what said 'product' delivers.

And the fact that you feel a need to refer to me as 'a misinformed drone' and to insinuate that I've been 'posting trash' speaks more volumes about your character than it does the rationale behind my original post.

As to the majority of the other respondents here, I've deeply appreciated your comments, critiques, suggestions and advice.

I wholy agree and support your comments. Unfortunately, some newcomers have not yet learned the etiquette of these forums. Give them a break, they are yet to learn how to act as an officer and a gentleman, which is the standard for Subsim .

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Brag

I wholy agree and support your comments. Unfortunately, some newcomers have not yet learned the etiquette of these forums. Give them a break, they are yet to learn how to act as an officer and a gentleman, which is the standard for Subsim .

Hmmm

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

And I'm interested in any comments you may have about my post?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=111

Mainly because you chose that review

I'd be happy to do so. Before I do, however, I'd like to make a small example.

How many people do you think will be buying the 2010 Lexus GX 460 SUV? You know, the SUV that Consumer Reports judges a "Don't Buy; Safety Risk"? In fact, they are urging consumers not to buy the GX 460 until the problem has been fixed.

Not very fair don't you think? I mean, after all, shouldn't everyone have a chance to own one and decide for themselves if, indeed, it's a safety risk and, yes, does in fact have a tendency to roll over? Not very fair to take someone else's word about that, is it?

What do I think of your post? That it pretty much sums up how I feel.

If they patch it, and if they do something about the DRM, and once the game is heavily modded . . .

This is a game that could be absolutely outstanding, actually fantastic because the base is there for an outstanding game. Just like SHIII and IV, this is a game that shipped incomplete but unlike SHIII or IV this game has some serious detractions that hurt the game significantly.


(italics mine)

I appreciate our modders here more than words can say. They do incredible work and often seem taken for granted. But I expected a complete, (reasonably) finished simulation. I say reasonably because only someone detached from reality could conceivably expect every bug to be discovered, no matter how hard the developers searched for them.

I also expected, and anticipated, a U-boat simulation a quantum leap higher than its predecessor, SHIII. And when it comes to graphics, it certainly does. It just seems to have some very serious flaws.

However, after reading no few of the posts here, I'll keep watch on how things develop. Ubi might surprise me after all. Stranger things have happened. Most certainly the modders here will be doing their dead-level best to improve things.