SUBSIM: Silent Hunter 5 review (17/03/10)

[urfisch]

thanks a lot neal!!!

[PL_Andrev]

Buhahaha!

This is non-english source of SH5 review (17.03):
Strange, your words Neal...

Negligence can be seen, moreover, at every step. Accompanied by an instruction is one big mistake. Explains nothing and is completely useless. The game also lacks a decent tutorial. At the beginning of the campaign we have a small tutorial, but it covers only a fraction of the knowledge necessary to cope with the game. Worse still, the interface has changed so much that even veterans of the series will have problems with his understanding.

and summary:

Silent Hunter 5 is a classic example of non polished diamond. At release date the game was weak, after a few patches and the first mods is average, and for the year will be just wonderful. (...) I advise everyone else to abstain for the purchase of at least six months.

Source at:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...Z5Ll8tUwtHWD3Q

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by CCIP

As far as the SH series, I think it'd be easy to agree that...

SH1 - the original game; classic by default and a good game in its own right, in its own time. I'd call it an 8/10 game, in the bigger scope of things.

To be accurate, SH1 was pretty unifinished, too. There were several key commands missing from the manual, and the game shipped without several features mentioned in the manual, such as downed pilot rescue and sub vs sub

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

To be accurate, SH1 was pretty unifinished, too. There were several key commands missing from the manual, and the game shipped without several features mentioned in the manual, such as downed pilot rescue and sub vs sub

I have to admit, it's just been a long time and I never got into SH1 myself in any depth. I wouldn't say it was in worse shape than SH4 for example, though.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

Considering Im turning 40 next month, and havent been able to play SH5 either weekend I have been off....

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Where are you located? I'm in Houston, I have been playing SH5 3~6 hours a day for three weeks, with only one period of about 4 hours where the game could not connect. Maybe this is a localized problem?

He must be playing!

I wouldn't say it was in worse shape than SH4 for example, though.

Oh, I agree. SH1 was pretty tight. Of course, the scope was mush narrower, the game did much less than SH4, but yeah, I recall it was really trouble free.

[Hitman]

I just finished reading the review.

I think it was a fair one, as usual, but I must say that once I finished reading I expected a much lower points score, given the contents of the previous text 76 is however OK with me.

It's interesting to note that CAOD rated 83, SH1 84 and SH4 87 . IMHO, SH1 at its time was better than SH4 at its own, but it's Neal's house LOL, so OK.

In any case, all games after SH3 have had a more difficult time to win our hearts, because once the 3D era was entered, all further steps have been much smaller. The gap between SH3 and Aces of the Deep is enormous, but the gap between SH5 and SH3 isn't that much.

[RickC Sniper]

It's a fair review Neal, thanks. Calling it unfinished and suggesting that people should wait to buy it is putting the hammer to the nail. Brutally honest.

I do, however, think that your score reflects our tendency to rely on modders today. I know I look at a game differently now after seeing what has been done to SH3 and SH4 by the community. Perhaps you can ignore that aspect, but I can't.

That said, it IS fun to play and it's potential is real, but Ubi needs to step up to the plate and deliver.

Folks, Neal can only review the DRM based on his own experiences with it, not yours.

[Shrimp]

A good review! Thanks a lot for it. Please give UB a Golden Banana for cheating customers...

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Of course, I disagree with the view that "Ubi execs see SH3 scores 100% and of course that means nothing needs to be done as this game is perfect". That's just an assumption on your part, unless you know more about Ubi's executives than the rest of us. I don't know how they see that, we can guess all day.

It is not an assumption and is based upon my experience with SH3, SH4, the SH4 add-on and from my reading of the forums for SH5.

SH3 broke new ground and was a revolution for the u-boat/submarine genre and I cannot speak highly enough of the underlying product and vision. But, SH3 got a mere 4 patches which did not address most of the major issues before being let go, and let’s be honest it had some big ones like the 8k horizon and the Tiger Tank U-boat© too many more to mention here.

SH4 was a full priced expansion that did not address a lot of underlying issues like the 8K horizon (yes patched out but...) & and the Tiger Tank Submarine© and went on to introduce a lot more as well as breaking some of what worked in SH3 or SH3+mods and was followed by an add-on that really should have been free DLC.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I could argue that Ubi execs see SH3 scores 100 and they say, "make another game as good as SH3!"

And there is the problem; we have been getting games as good as SH3 instead of games that are better. SH3 when it was released for all it ground breaking features and revolutionising of the genre was only a 65% and with GWX or NYGM an 85%. We are still only getting the 65%.

Neither SH4 and the SH4 add-on raised the bar as far as being complete and have taken steps backwards by breaking what worked in SH3 or SH3+mods.

As we saw with SH3, SH4 & the SH4 add-on, more often than not most new items are never complete or working as advertised and more importantly they were never fixed by Ubi. In SH5 this is the case as well, I mean you need to power up and ‘keep the man happy’ just to be able to pre-heat a torpedo, FFS!!

Who is responsible for the above? The Ubi executives.

Firstly we all know how dedicated, passionate and focused the Dev team is, but they can only do what they are allowed to by management and the Ubi executive. The Ubi executive are not at arm’s length and are given demo’s and updates in person in their French HQ all through the development process. They know, or should, what state their product is in when it is released.

Secondly it is the Ubi executives who are ultimately responsible for the end product as they set the policy and procedures that their business operates on.

In relation to SH this has always encompassed an unrealistic development schedule repeatedly discarding the advice from the Dev team. One can only conclude by what is delivered and how it is not supported that the Ubi executive are only interested in milking this franchise till it is bled dry and people like myself stop buying into half backed releases.

I also agree that you were neglectful in not focusing more on the DRM. While you have had a good run it is obvious that many have not, so while you can acknowledge that you have had little to no issues you should have acknowledged that many do have not shared your experience.

If the game crashed every second or third time you would not find this acceptable, but for some reason think this is OK when it is ‘I cannot play every second or third time’ because of the DRM policy forced on the buying public.

It is time that game publishers started to realise they are in a service industry and they now have far more competition for the consumer dollar than ever before and they need to engage the consumer and show them respect. This will in the long run make them more money than the continual useless DRM they force upon those who respect the publishers enough to buy the game and restricting the resale of the game they purchased.

Would you accept the same restrictions on a book? Because I do not see how it is that different.

Now that we have 90% more sales and shyte loads of money because of the, uhm, unbreakable DRM, I would expect that Ubi will now support SH5 by fixing everything that is incomplete or non functional and that when it comes to SH6 they will finally release a FINISHED product for the 1st time this century?

If I was a betting man, I think that has as much chance of happening as my penis enlarger has of changing my nick name from Peewee to Horse

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

It is not an assumption and is based upon my experience with SH3, SH4, the SH4 add-on and from my reading of the forums for SH5.

Ah, so it is based on your assumptions. I've heard that theory many times, it's still just a theory.

I also agree that you were neglectful in not focusing more on the DRM. While you have had a good run it is obvious that many have not, so while you can acknowledge that you have had little to no issues you should have acknowledged that many do have not shared your experience.

You want me to critique something I haven't seen? I said, "It's a big problem for people who travel or do not have reliable internet."



I'd rather not hear about your penis enlarger.

Good, unslanted review.

[Gatt]

Well, this nice review comes too late.
The preview told too little about DRM, bugs and game deficiensies.
Now that UBI already did the most part of sales its easier to shoot at the piano player.
Now that I already bought this ridiculous u-boat sim.
Bhà ...

[tater]

I think DTB makes good points.

Face it, the devs are very much in the position of the officers of public companies. Such officers feel their primary role is to increase GROWTH of the company, or more specifically the stock. At a certain point you hit a wall—how can a coffee shop sell more than X cups per capita, per day, lol? Add food! Then when everyone is eating and drinking, then how do they grow? Sell toilet access?

The devs are in a similar position with new releases in the same "family."

The execs want to see something NEW. Old bugs? Who cares, didn't stop sales before, and they can have someone in the team dribble out a patch or two while they work on the next, unfinished game with NEW stuff that is obvious.

OSes have the same thing. A new Windows has to LOOK DIFFERENT. Never mind that they don't fix old bugs that are deep under the hood—in order to score a sale it has to add NEW FEATURES, even as they add new bugs.

A couple years ago I was doing some remodeling downstairs. At the same time, I needed to do the roof. Turned out that the roof needed a total replacement—along with my HVAC which is up there. I ended up spending more on the roof than my downstairs Library-media room/guest bedroom/bathroom (total maybe 800 ft^2). More on the roof, and guess what, it's 100% invisible. HVAC works as before, roof works properly, but no one but me (and now you all ) will ever know. HAD to be done, but if I was a software company, I'd just have done the pretty downstairs remodel and left the roof for the next guy.

A SH4 example. The paid add-on. It added u-boats instead of useful PTO content, and into the bargain it didn't fix any bugs to speak of, or primary errors in the initial game.

[Safe-Keeper]

A couple years back I was asked what I thought was the next step for subsims, I said, "compelling radio traffic, complex objectives like shadowing convoys, genuine wolfpack activity, more role-playing with the crew, and full boat access".
SH5 does not deliver on any of these metrics, with the exception of opening up the whole U-boat to the player.

You know, thinking about it, I agree wholeheartedly. The radio silence in SHIII, and now again in SH5, is disheartening.

At least have AI "chatter" that reflected game events. When I spot a convoy and the AI responds by sending friendly bombers over, it'd be nice to get a message like "four bombers dispatched to engage, estimated time to arrival 20 minutes". It doesn't even have to be dynamic, like "shadow convoy and send new radio report in 15 minutes", just updates from the AI when stuff happened. As it is, I just send off reports and hope that there's help coming. Not that I really should, because I don't think BdU rewards you for neither reports nor kills made by friendlies as a result of those reports. At least it didn't in SHIII. It's just "keep doing what you're doing and shaddap for two hours kthxbai".

I know some people hate it when I bring up Falcon 4 AF, but think of how the radio traffic enriches that game. You don't even need to see the fighting, it's enough to hear a constant stream of "Wolf 1, engage Mig 29s, bullseye 129, 12 miles", "mayday, mayday, airman down, airman down, bullseye 149, 20 miles", "set up RESCAP ", "Claw 1-2, declaring an emergency", "Tomcat 4, engaged defensive" and all the other stuff the AI generates.

If SH5 handled radio like F4AF did (perhaps even with voice lines when appropriate!), I'd be glued to the radio station.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

I know some people hate it when I bring up Falcon 4 AF, but think of how the radio traffic enriches that game. You don't even need to see the fighting, it's enough to hear a constant stream of "Wolf 1, engage Mig 29s, bullseye 129, 12 miles", "mayday, mayday, airman down, airman down, bullseye 149, 20 miles", "set up RESCAP ", "Claw 1-2, declaring an emergency", "Tomcat 4, engaged defensive" and all the other stuff the AI generates.

If SH5 handled radio like F4AF did (perhaps even with voice lines when appropriate!), I'd be glued to the radio station.

I know. Aces of the Deep was the same way. During the Happy Times, you would get periodic messages from other U-boats to BdU, totaling their scores. Then in 1943, there were more and more

U-189
Attacked by aircraft. Sinking.