[REL] Longer Repair Times v2.0 Final

[badwolf]

what do the changes to the bombs.sim and depthcharges.sim do? I'm trying to make this compatible with the increased ASW mod, and i need to know if these changes were introduced to compensate for the stronger hull.

IIRC it increases the damage radius of the weapon.

[andqui]

sorry to bring this up-

but i have some questions on this mod and how it works-

1. Is the compatability patch included updated for the 2.4.3 version of OLC ubermod?

2. I have the Increased ASW mod by albrecht von hesse, which adds the teardrop USN depth charges and realistic aircraft depth charge loadouts and parameters- when i try to enable it over this, i see that this mod has changed the depthcharges and bombs.sim. What do these changes do, and why are they necessary? Is it to compensate for the stronger hull?

3. A while back there was some version called the hardcore LRT mod- where you're sub was as fragile as it should be. Is LRT 2.02 the hardcore version? If not, does anyone have that version so i can make a hardcore version of 2.02. I'm just bringing this up because I've been noticing that my sub is sometimes unusually strong- 4 direct hedgehog hits should be virtually unsurvivable, yet i've found that a hedgehog hit produces no more than the yellow damage. A hedgehog hit should be critical.

Is there any kind of changelog that shows what parameters have been changed in the files that can't be viewed in notepad, like the .zon and .sim files? With the ones in notepad, I can just use beyondcompare to look at the before and after... but I'm finding that with the other files I have to manually go through each node and entry in s3d and try and figure out what's different. Lots of times i don't even know what the changes were for. Is there any guide to the various entries in s3d that explains what each of them do?

thanks

[badwolf]

Hi andqui
The question's you have put forward really requires Nvdrifter (aka Zen Master Caine) to answer them fully. He has included a modding log explaining briefly the intension of each adjustment. I know that he has done extensive tests to get the "Das Boot" feeling into the sim, but has had great trouble getting around the Hard Coding restrictions. The trouble you find with some mods, is that when you change something to your liking. it changes the balance elsewhere, thus you have to make other adjustments to compensate.
I am at the moment still testing different scenario's, but apart from one niggling fault (scrolling text), the damage model seems to be about right. If damage was increased the sim would be nigh on impossible. I took damage from a mine that gave me a red compartment and the rest yellow. It took my utmost to save the boat, with damaged diving planes, forward movement sent me deeper. I slowly settled on the bottom repaired the leeks and blew ballast. If I had been hunted, escape would have been impossible. I quite like the idea of being pummelled to death with depth charges, rather than the instant death. You have to remember also that with longer repair times, a red compartment is virtually a slow death.
Having said all that, I do believe that further improvements or perhaps a return to some older settings may improve things further, it's a matter of personnel taste.

Answer to 1.
Yes? "OLCU Special GUI LRT 2.02 Final patch". Which version unsure, but making changes should be no problem.

Answer to 2.
Haven't looked at this yet. But merging the files and upgating to LRT settings shouldn't be a problem.

Answer to 3.
LRT 2.02 is the hardcore version, there is also a lite version. There has been some adjustments to settings to hopefully give a better model. Can't comment more, still testing.

I've had a quick look at the .zon and .sim files and some settings are self explanatory, I won't know more until I start modding this area. But I would imagine that they would have been altered to balance the strong hull effect and maybe equipment, flooding & crew injury.

I hope this is of some help.

[h.sie]

with a little analytic understanding, one can manually make LRT compatible with any mod. in the lite version, nvdrifter only changed all Interval3-Values in basic.cfg and the Floodingtime-values of the floodable UBoat-sections in Zones.dat. that's all.

[andqui]

thanks for the answers-

okay. After my abortive try a few months ago, i'm making increased ASW compatable with this. I have some questions about the depth charges and bombs.sim

These files have five entries per weapon type:
Fall speed
Detonate Depth
Depth Precision
Explosion Range
Explosion Impulse


The increased ASW mod has the historical explosive loadouts and sink rates, so I'd like to use that as a base and just scale it to LRT.

1. Fall speed seems fairly obvious.
2. Detonate Depth: I understand what it means in the bombs.sim, but I have no clue what this entry would do in the depth charges one. This entry is the same for the depth charges- 25 - for both mods, so i'll just use that. But the bombs vary. I'm using the ASW settings for historical detonation depths.
3. Depth Precision: I have no clue what that means. Any help? In the depth charges.sim, LRT has it at 15 while IASW has it at 11.
In the bombs.sim, LRT has it at 5 for all of them, while IASW varies from one to five. Any help here on what this does?
4. Explosion Range: self explanatory, but i don't know how to change this. The LRT values are essentially 60% larger. How should I adjust the IASW settings, which range from 35-43, to compensate?
5. Explosion Impulse: is this the explosion power? The IASW has this much higher than the LRT settings. How should I scale this?

Also, all of the bombs.sim settings for LRT are the same. Why is this? Doesn't it take different sized bombs into acount?

Finally, the last setting in the bombs.sim file is strange. Both mods put the explosion range and impulse at 0.001953125. Which weapon is this?

thanks

andqui

[badwolf]

I classify mods that have conflicting files in two catagories:-
1. Files that conflict but the area or values don't effect one another. Easy to merge with no detriment to either mod. Usually requires no testing.
2. Both conflicting files alter the same area or values. More difficult to merge and a compromise is sought resulting in changes to either or both mods function. Testing is usually required to achieve correct balance in mods.

Having looked at LRT & ASW I would unfortunately place this in No.2.
As I said before until I work on this area I am no expert in the matter. But to help you, I will try my best. If we enable both mods the JSGME reports 2 conflicts - Bombs.sim + Depthcharges.sim.

Lets look at LRT and compare the 2 files to the basic GWX 2.1 (no mods enabled in JSGME)
Using S3D
Open up Bombs.sim in LRT & GWX 2.1.
You will notice the last 11:amun_Bomb is unaltered so ignore.
The others have 2 changes:-

LRT
explosion_range=70 ..... all same value
explosion_impulse=150 ..... all same value

GWX 2.1
explosion_range=30 ..... to 43
explosion_impulse=1000 .... to 2100

Open up Depthcharges.sim in LRT & GWX 2.1.

LRT
explosion_range=70
explosion_impulse=150

GWX 2.1
explosion_range=34
explosion_impulse=750

Now compare ASW to the basic GWX 2.1 (no mods enabled in JSGME).
Using S3D
Open up Bombs.sim in LRT & GWX 2.1.
You will notice the last 11:amun_Bomb is unaltered so ignore.

fall_speed
detonate_depth
depth_precision
explosion_range
explosion_impulse

The first weapon alters all 5 settings above.
The rest alter 2nd and 3rd settings above.

Open up Depthcharges.sim, compare ASW to the basic GWX 2.1 (no mods enabled in JSGME).
Let you compare.

Now armed with this information we can draw up a conclusion and see how to tackle it.

It looks like LRT takes no account of different weapons and that the explosion_impulse is decreased to the same value for each giving less damage, so no critical close hits. To compensate this the explosion_range is increased to give a greater number of hits.

ASW increases the impulse and range of the first set in Bombs.sim making it more lethal.
They all have 2 or 3 of the following altered detonate_depth, depth_precision & fall_speed giving generally a more accurate weapon. (this is what may stop blowing own DC rack)

The next step depends on how good a Kaleun you are.
The closer the settings are to ASW the harder it will be with a good chance of a critical hit. They won't have the range of LRT but with a faster fall rate and increased accuracy dodging them will be more difficult. LRT might have as many hits due to range, but the impulse will only be about 1/8 of ASW. (This probably accounts for only getting yellow and not red damage for a direct hit).

Here's perhaps the best for both mods
All ASW settings except for:-
explosion_range
explosion_impulse
You will have to experiment for your own difficulty ASW (hard) to LRT (easier and slower death). If you are being hit too often due to range & accuracy then try reducing explosion_range first to minimise effecting ASW.(blowing own rack)

On a closing note, as I'm a true masochist I think I'll give the Full ASW settings a try, even though I play DID. If you find errors then I apologise as I said before haven't modded this area and a lot is based on conclusions. Something you have shown up is that the 2nd, 3rd & 4th weapons in Bomb.sim have identical values in LRT, which is pointless and looks wrong, the 2 .sim files were first introduced in LRT 2.0 so NVDrifter probably didn't get enough time on this part.

[andqui]

thanks for the help. I'll probably stick with the ASW settings.

the final thing i don't understand is this-

LRT made each compartment stonger to minimize the instant hull failure, right?

Why is this? Depth charges and hedgehogs were often quickly fatal if one hit near enough. I can't remember the number, but there was that one Uboat that got raised out of the Kattegatt years ago, where you could see how the depth charge had just blasted a seam in the hull.
To me, the making the hull stronger doesn't seem too realistic. Depth charges and hedgehogs were intended to blow holes in the boat. I feel that the instant death screen is realistic when you have hull failure, and all the stronger compartments do are just make the death more drawn out. It is inevitable either way. The only time the instant death screen is unrealistic is when it happens from a compartment completely flooding, and LRT has solved this by increasing the flooding times.

So my question is will it unbalance things when I remove the stronger compartments feature and keep the others, like the increased chances of crew deaths up top and slower flooding? That seems like best option to me. That way, the sub's hull can fail like it should under certain conditions and i don't have to worry about compatability with Increased ASW.

[badwolf]

I agree to some extent on what you are saying and yes it's all to do with keeping the sim playable as well as realistic.
In the original game you could make repairs on the run in a few minutes while evading attack, but you can't now with LRT, so the sim is far harder to play with equipment failure and flooding. The strengthening of the hull & slower flooding compensates that and gives you a fighting chance, plus delaying the instant death and giving a more dramatic "Das Boot" effect. The mod "Thomsen's No Instant DeathScreen Mod V1.3" was made because of the instant death and that doesn't have longer repair times.
At the beginning of the war a sub would experience inaccurate and less destructive equipment, depth charging was more to keep them submerged than to destroy, so long depth charge times would be the norm. It would be a lucky hit to take out a sub in one, but if enough accumilated damage was caused it could give the sub problems. As the war progress then damage and accuracy increased until it became a nightmare.
This is what's needed to be represented in the sim, that's why I said having 3 weapons with the same values doesn't look right. Using that model would give a good difficulty curve , so you start the war fighting against damage with a "Das Boot" effect and at the end of the war try to avoid instant death.

You played GWX 2.1 with and without LRT and know the effect. You don't know the effect of having the ASW settings, so test that first before changing anything else.
This is a sim and doesn't fully represent real tactics accurately like the wolfpack, were you could slip in while the escorts are busy elsewhere, so your attacking a convoy without the "herd effect" safety in numbers. This means you make the sim as realistic as possible but with discretion.

[andqui]

I think I'll make a backup, and then remove the extra compartent armor from LRT and use the IASW settings. Here's my reasoning:

The IASW settings are historical values, not uberdepthcharges. Since the increased compartment armor only deals with hull strength, equipment damage is still dealt out the same. The only thing it changes is hull integrity. If I take these hull bonuses off, I get my motors, scope, etc. damaged at the same rate as without, so the longer repair times aren't an extra handicap. The repair times would be the same with or without the hull bonuses. I'll test these settings and see how they go.

Thanks for your help...


andqui

[jaxa]

Does LRT 2.02 work correctly with OLCU 2.4.3 using compatibility patch?

[itman]

First off: can't play SHIII without LRT...

now I'm about installing hsGUI. Do I need that compatibility patch? When comparing those menu_1024_768.ini's hs's version contain much more changes than the LRT-version. So my question is: Is it compulsory to install that LRT-patch?

cheers

[Lanzfeld]

Is the ONLY difference from the LRT and "Lite" version the elimination of the camera shake?

[badwolf]

Is the ONLY difference from the LRT and "Lite" version the elimination of the camera shake?

No Lanzfeld. In Zones.cfg there are compartment differences with hitpoints and armour levels + some other differences.

[Lanzfeld]

Okay,

While doing some research on this mod I found out that older versions of LRT had a negative effect on GWX. I guess it made all the sensors on the players boat 100% effective (not really sure what this means). I thought it messed with long range gunnery in GWX but not sure.

Anyway...

I REALLY want to use this mod but I dont want to "break" GWX. Does anyone know what the latest LRT does to GWX exactly? If I know exactly how it effects GWX then I can make the choice myself if I want to use it.

I know there was a fallout somewhere in there with authors and I dont even want to talk about that. Just the mod please!

[h.sie]

i suggest to use lrt lite. that doesnt interfere with gwx. just changes crew efficiency and flooding times. if repair times are too long, you can use my LLRT (little longer repair times) tweak of the original LRT. you can find it on my filefront-page