Time to regulate Bible and samurai sword ownership

[August]

Originally Posted by VipertheSniper

LOL sid

going by your logic, if I didn't "believe" in the laws of physics I'd be able to overcome them. I guess I could have superpowers...

No you miss his point. If you don't"believe" in the laws of physics then you can't create and build things that can work under them.

For example: If you don't "believe" in the laws of physics then you don't see the importance of creating a wing that has more surface on top than on the bottom.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

Faith and belief go hand in hand and are the same in everyone

A lot of leaders in Church today have trouble in believing, how can that be.
Because the fruits of belief are not there. What are the fruits of believing, light bulbs, mad people flying flimsey aircraft across the Atlantic, the idea of walking on the moon. These events are the fruits of Faith and belief in action, God has given every one of us a portion of this Faith, it's in the bible some where, you'll have to look it up yourself, lol.

The unbeliever or even the athiest believes in God more than he realizes, probable more than most middle class church leaders do today. When Jesus was teaching the people about faith and belief, the example that God gave the people was not a Church leader or elder, but a centurion soldier, a man who understood and practiced faith and belief every day, you don't get more radical than that. The church today is about control and law, the very things that Jesus came to free us from. Every religion is just that, religion nothing more. faith and belief are about people

sid: creator of fine slots

Not gonna look the verse up, but doe's state God has given each man a measure of faith. I guess some he gave very little, so they ended up using logic, so who's faults that.

Faith has much to do with culture, tradition fear, guilt and the way we're raised as it doe's anything. Maybe faith was pushed so much in biblical times due to the lack of science. You have to remember many scientist back then were murdered by the church for using logic over faith.

Sometimes I think faith is confused with fear as most religions see God as the pagans did, standing over us with a big club ready to smash us at will, then torture us forever when we die. Most religions, including Christianity believe the mass of humanity will end up being tortured for enternity.....just for being born.


Many atheist prefer to say " I just don't know." Even though I still find enough faith to say God is possible often my doubtful heart says the same.
Bill Mayer often confuses me, he'll state that theere is no God, but when he gets serious he'll comment..."I just don't know."

It appears to me your talking about man having faith in himself, not God..?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Not saying that was the only reason...

My objection wasn't to your comments on Anglicanism vs Puritanism vs Catholicism but you your specific comment "...our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV." Only a very few people came here seeking 'religious freedom', and I don't believe that which version of the bible they read had anything to do with it. That is what I asked for documentation on.

[VipertheSniper]

Originally Posted by August

No you miss his point. If you don't"believe" in the laws of physics then you can't create and build things that can work under them.

For example: If you don't "believe" in the laws of physics then you don't see the importance of creating a wing that has more surface on top than on the bottom.

Well I realized that myself and it did cross my mind to edit my post accordingly, but I forgot, as I had some work to do.

[August]

Originally Posted by VipertheSniper

...but I forgot, as I had some work to do.

Hey no probs. I can't count how many times I have done that exact same thing.

[Sailor Steve]

And, agree or disagree, it's nice to see someone post honestly. Viper and August .

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

My objection wasn't to your comments on Anglicanism vs Puritanism vs Catholicism but you your specific comment "...our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV." Only a very few people came here seeking 'religious freedom', and I don't believe that which version of the bible they read had anything to do with it. That is what I asked for documentation on.

Actually if you study the issue, many of the Puritans {believers in the Geneva bible and Doctrine} were persecuted by the COE, {KJV believers} many tortured and killed.

The actual core of them wanting to come to America was over this. They hated the KJV with it's taint of Rome and the latin vulgate. They refused any KJV bible and brought with them their beloved Geneva. You're wrong to assume people came here for religious freedom per say. More one group of believers left than many with different beliefs. Those that came did so with one religious mindset, not seeking religious freedom for all. All in all, only about a 10% difference between the two, but some big differences.

If you study the links in detail, it's rather clear, but again a long study.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Actually if you study the issue, many of the Puritans {believers in the Geneva bible and Doctrine} were persecuted by the COE, {KJV believers} many tortured and killed.

The actual core of them wanting to come to America was over this. They hated the KJV with it's taint of Rome and the latin vulgate. They refused any KJV bible and brought with them their beloved Geneva. You're wrong to assume people came here for religious freedom per say. More one group of believers left than many with different beliefs. Those that came did so with one religious mindset, not seeking religious freedom for all. All in all, only about a 10% difference between the two, but some big differences.

If you study the links in detail, it's rather clear, but again a long study.

First, while I'm trying to cure myself of being a grammar nazi, especially when it's someone I'm disagreeing with, I have to point out that the phrase is per se, Latin for "by itself" or "of itself". I apologize, but that's one that drives me crazy.

Again, my exception wasn't that your arguments, it was to your assertion that this argument was responsible for the founding of the United States.

Virginia: Agriculture and wealth.
Delaware: Founded as New Sweden so the Dutch government could gain a foothold in the New World.
North Carolina: Founded by Virginians seeking to expand.
South Carolina: As North Carolina.
New Jersey: Founded as part of the ex-New Netherlands contract. The founders promised new settlers religious freedom, but that was to attract workers for an economic charter. They also promised representative government for the same reason.
New York: Founded by James, Duke of York, as part of the New Netherlands settlement. Economic.
Pennsylvania: Founded so the Quakers could have religious freedom. They had their own bible, but hostility toward the KJV does not seem to be a part of the reason they came here. Pennsylvania was arguably the first colony to guarantee true freedom of worship to all its citizens. The puritans of Massachussetts certainly did not.
Georgia: Founded as a place for those in debtor's prison to start a new life, and as a buffer to the Spanish holdings in Florida.

So of the original thirteen colonies, only two were founded for religious reasons, and only Massachussetts had the Puritans. The US was mostly founded by economic expansionists and the English Government, which wanted their own foothold in the new world.