US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by mapuc

A question to my American friends

From what you have read and heard during this progress, incl. the hearing.

Are you convinced he is:

1. Guilty ?

or he is:

2. Not Guilty ?

I'm not interested in lots of links, but what you are personally convinced he is.

Markus

The only thing presented so far as evidence has been hearsay and opinion, until there is either direct evidence, or a witness with direct knowledge of the alleged incident, the verdict has to be not guilty

[Buddahaid]

I like what Starr has to say here despite loathing Tucker's smarmy snotty boy perpetually offended persona.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&fr=crmas&tt=b

[Cybermat47]

American politics are very inspiring to me. They remind me that my country could be doing a lot worse.

But seriously, hope things improve for you guys soon.

[vienna]

<O>

[u crank]

If there is a singular point to the release of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's report it is not what the left wing MSM has focused on. The report did find that there was no political bias in the launch of the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Take that however you may but the big story is about Christopher Steele's dossier. The report makes clear the dossier never had even a shred of credibility. People beleive what they see is true because that is what they believe.

Like the much-ballyhooed report by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, the Horowitz report is a Rorschach test, in which partisans will find what they want to find.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-media-924944/

Horowitz's report debunks long held claims by both the left and the right. But it paints a damning picture of an incompetent FBI and it's leadership. And central to that was their view of the Steele dossier.

Press figures have derided the idea that Steele was crucial to the FISA application, with some insisting it was only a “small part” of the application. Horowitz is clear:

"We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order."

The report describes how, prior to receiving Steele’s reports, the FBI General Counsel (OGC) and/or the National Security Division’s Office of Intelligence (OI) wouldn’t budge on seeking FISA authority. But after getting the reports, the OGC unit chief said, “receipt of the Steele reporting changed her mind on whether they could establish probable cause.”

Horowitz's report also gives a different view on another widely held belief of some Democrats and members of the media. And that was about the memo released by Rep. Devin Nunes which was widely derided after it came out in Jan. 2018.

There was gnashing of teeth when Nunes first released his memo in January, 2018. The press universally crapped on his letter, with a Washington Post piece calling it a “joke” and a “sham.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi slammed Nunes for the release of a “bogus” document, while New York Senator Chuck Schumer said the memo was intended to “sow conspiracy theories and attack the integrity of federal law enforcement.” Many called for his removal as Committee chair.

The Horowitz report says all of that caterwauling was off-base. It also undercuts many of the assertions made in a ballyhooed response letter by Nunes counterpart Adam Schiff, who described the FBI’s “reasonable basis” for deeming Steele credible. The report is especially hostile to Schiff’s claim that the FBI “provided additional information obtained through multiple independent sources that corroborated Steele’s reporting.”

My hope is that those in the media and certain politicians should pay a price for being so wrong and believing anything in Steele's dossier without some serious investigation first. And Mr. Steele, well he should apologize and then go away quietly.

As a result, a “well-developed conspiracy” theory based on a report that Comey described as “salacious and unverified material that a responsible journalist wouldn’t report without corroborating,” became the driving news story in a superpower nation for two years. Even the New York Times, which published a lot of these stories, is in the wake of the Horowitz report noting Steele’s role in “unleashing a flood of speculation in the news media about the new president’s relationship with Russia.”

No matter what people think the political meaning of the Horowitz report might be, reporters who read it will know: Anybody who touched this nonsense in print should be embarrassed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

A question to my American friends

From what you have read and heard during this progress, incl. the hearing.

Are you convinced he is:

1. Guilty ?

or he is:

2. Not Guilty ?

I'm not interested in lots of links, but what you are personally convinced he is.

Markus

Of high crimes and misdemeanor? Nope. The House has nothing. It is a word game. First is quid pro quo. That did not drive support. Bribery! People understand that and certainly Americans can get behind bribery charges. Well, they can't prove bribery. So, let just go for abuse of power. Sorry, I don't see it. So does most of America. Obstruction of Congress. Ok, sure....however is this a high crime and misdemeanor? Maybe a misdemeanor but certainly not enough to remove a sitting president.

This entire ordeal is politically driven and has been since the day Trump was sworn in.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

American politics are very inspiring to me. They remind me that my country could be doing a lot worse.

But seriously, hope things improve for you guys soon.

They will improve when this nonsense of impeachment is done.

[Mr Quatro]

Breaking News: Donald Trump pulls his hair out

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...azy/ar-AAK1pEh

Why Time picking Greta Thunberg will drive Donald Trump crazy

On Wednesday morning, Time magazine announced that teen climate
activist Greta Thunberg was its person of the year.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Obstruction of Congress. Ok, sure....however is this a high crime and misdemeanor? Maybe a misdemeanor but certainly not enough to remove a sitting president.

I think Dwight Eisenhower was the first president to invoke executive privilege. Back then he used it close another screwed up chapter in American politics and bring to an end Senator Joe McCarthy's fishing expedition for Russians. Of McCarthy's fishing expedition Eisenhower wrote: “It is a sad commentary on our government when such a manifestly useless and spurious thing can divert our attention from all the constructive work in which we could and should be engaged.”

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I think Dwight Eisenhower was the first president to invoke executive privilege. Back then he used it close another screwed up chapter in American politics and bring to an end Senator Joe McCarthy's fishing expedition for Russians. Of McCarthy's fishing expedition Eisenhower wrote: “It is a sad commentary on our government when such a manifestly useless and spurious thing can divert our attention from all the constructive work in which we could and should be engaged.”

The entire process is setting a very bad precedence. The Constitution states the following: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Unpacking this statement the word "other" is equating high crimes and misdemeanors on the same level as treason and bribery. Again, the Democrats pushing the "bribery" when quid pro quo fizzled out. As such, the Democrats are now considering obstruction and abuse of power on the same level as treason and bribery. What will be next? Parking ticket is on the same level as bribery?

[MaDef]

So... Should we keelhaul President Trump or just draw & quarter him?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Breaking News: Donald Trump pulls his hair out

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...azy/ar-AAK1pEh

Why Time picking Greta Thunberg will drive Donald Trump crazy

How dare he......

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by MaDef

So... Should we keelhaul President Trump or just draw & quarter him?

Neither. He has not done anything. However, if he has they sure can't prove it.

[August]

Maybe we'll just reelect him.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Neither. He has not done anything. However, if he has they sure can't prove it.

I was being facetious.