Korean air 007 should it have been shot down?

[TteFAboB]

Why do Russians feel so attached to their state and especially their authorities, why do they feel personal responsability for things that are COMPLETELY out of their grip? I see this effect everywhere, definitely inherited from Soviet times, indeed the Communism ideology is perfect, it plagues the human being like a virus, it's a pitty we have the vaccine readily available, but some decide not to take it.

Originally Posted by Abraham

You mean the Bosnian Muslims, the Afghan Muslims and the Iraqi Muslims probably...

I mean Philippines, China, Honduras, Haiti, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Cuba, Japan, Hawaii, Russia, Costa-Rica, Guatemala, Salvador, Peru, Albania, Lebanon, Chile... Should I continue?

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Why do Russians feel so attached to their state and especially their authorities

I don't know, really Maybe those things somehow help the nation to survive?

why do they feel personal responsability for things that are COMPLETELY out of their grip?

USA, of course, know better than anyone, what to do

I see this effect everywhere, definitely inherited from Soviet times

Well, take earlier - there was a Russian Empire once. Not that Empire of Evil, but the Empire of Tsar

indeed the Communism ideology is perfect, it plagues the human being like a virus, it's a pitty we have the vaccine readily available, but some decide not to take it.

Who speaks about communism here? Communist elections is in a nearby topic Or maybe we should create a new one, about plagues and ideologies?

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Why do Russians feel so attached to their state and especially their authorities, why do they feel personal responsability for things that are COMPLETELY out of their grip? I see this effect everywhere, definitely inherited from Soviet times, indeed the Communism ideology is perfect, it plagues the human being like a virus, it's a pitty we have the vaccine readily available, but some decide not to take it.

Then I suggest you go and get some good history books on Russia and the Soviet Union and also go live their for a few years.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Negr

I mean Philippines, China, Honduras, Haiti, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Cuba, Japan, Hawaii, Russia, Costa-Rica, Guatemala, Salvador, Peru, Albania, Lebanon, Chile... Should I continue?

Ah, I see.
Apart from Japan, that started an agressive war on Dec 7th, 1941 (maybe, but maybe there was no war at all) you mean the countries where the US tried to stop communist insurgencies.
Many of those countries are democratic now and much betteroff then would the good old USSR have succeeded. Compare Cuba, what a Paradise on Earth that is! If it wouldn't be inhumane for the population we should keep it as an historic exemple of what communism does to a basically prosporous country.

Originally Posted by Abraham

Ah, I see. Apart from Japan, that started an agressive war on Dec 7th, 1941 (maybe, but maybe there was no war at all) you mean the countries where the US tried to stop communist insurgencies.

Communist insurgency? In Japan in 1863? In Nicaragua in 1857? Etc? Just read about wars, conflicts and operations that USA commenced since the country's foundation.

Many of those countries are democratic now

Nuked Japan? Yeah, they made the proper choice after Enola Gay ant The Great Artiste...
Napalmed and AgentOranged Vietnam? Those, who survived, made their choice. Not everyone, though.
Citizens of Hamburg, Leipzig and Koeln also became true democrats.
Even Indians, you know, also became democrats (or maybe respublicans?)

Compare Cuba, what a Paradise on Earth that is! If it wouldn't be inhumane for the population we should keep it as an historic exemple of what communism does to a basically prosporous country.

First, to set a blockade - to Cuba or to Iraq. Not to allow food and medicines there. Then, seeing children there die because of USSs blocking trade lanes, to say: "What a bad and inhumane dictator rules this country!" It's a very wise and democratic, of course. And how humane! Then, of course, arrive US Captains Freedoms, napalm those who managed to survive, imprison those who don't cry "Freedom" loud enough...
Democracy is triumphant!

[Happy Times]

The talk about the new Empire has begun again The Ruskies are coming. Everybody hide

[Konovalov]

In my best Scottish accent, "Comrades, today we sail into history!"

[TteFAboB]

I prefer the enlightening dissent than the comforting consent.

Still, nobody answered my question, do Russians fear raising their voice against the State or do they find that unnecessary to help the nation to survive? Everything got covered up and only a handfull of Russians actually do the favour of digging things up and sharing their findings with the rest of the world.

My question is, what would happen to the officers or the pilot if the flight was in fact a spy plane and they let it slip unharmed, mistaking it for a civilian plane?

Gulag?

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

I prefer the enlightening dissent than the comforting consent.

Still, nobody answered my question, do Russians fear raising their voice against the State or do they find that unnecessary to help the nation to survive? Everything got covered up and only a handfull of Russians actually do the favour of digging things up and sharing their findings with the rest of the world.

My question is, what would happen to the officers or the pilot if the flight was in fact a spy plane and they let it slip unharmed, mistaking it for a civilian plane?

Gulag?

It doesnt matter who leads Russia or by what system. Certain things never change. Zars Ohrana agents continued in the NKVD/KGB , and they remain in the new FSB. One is the President. They are masters of disinformation in the world. They see/believe that conspiracies are everywhere (they think its the same in other countries also) ,but also make them up to their own needs. Most of the nation share these believes in this stuff. But when you say that it might be possible that the KE007 passengers might have been alive its just a western propaganda. BTW, anyone believe Putin had something to do with those buildings blowing up in Moscow? :hmm:

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Negr

I mean Philippines, China, Honduras, Haiti, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Cuba, Japan, Hawaii, Russia, Costa-Rica, Guatemala, Salvador, Peru, Albania, Lebanon, Chile... Should I continue?

Philippines-annexed after the Spanish/American war
China- ever heard of the 'Boxer Revolution'...more than just USA
Korea-a 'United Nations' force protected South Korea

Will Russia ever forget that we were on their Eastern soil?

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

In my best Scottish accent, "Comrades, today we sail into history!"

Abraham - in his best Russian accent - sets in: "Sayushni Rossimi Respublicz ..."

Phew. I'm tired trying to demostrate you anything...
If you want to continue using propaganda stereotypes from a cold war - let you do. If you want to think that USA is impeccable and Very Democratic country - let you think so. Of course, you never were in villages destroyed by air raids, you never seen civilian burned to bones by WP, you never seen children , mutilated by after-effects of Agent Orange. So, let you seat in your comfortable chair and discuss the cruel evil russians. Let you do so.
But after that, don't wonder at the fact that half a world hates USA.
I'm not the man to make you think another way. At least now.

Originally Posted by Abraham

Abraham - in his best Russian accent - sets in: "Sayushni Rossimi Respublicz ..."

Sayuz nerushimyi respublik svabodnykh If you meaned that

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Negr

Phew. I'm tired trying to demostrate you anything...
If you want to continue using propaganda stereotypes from a cold war - let you do. If you want to think that USA is impeccable and Very Democratic country - let you think so. Of course, you never were in villages destroyed by air raids, you never seen civilian burned to bones by WP, you never seen children , mutilated by after-effects of Agent Orange. So, let you seat in your comfortable chair and discuss the cruel evil russians. Let you do so.
But after that, don't wonder at the fact that half a world hates USA.
I'm not the man to make you think another way. At least now.

There was a Cold War going on, with lots of little hot wars of proxy. The cause was basically an agressive communist policy that aimed for world destination - times never really change, hu. Those little wars were often bloody and both parties have blood on their hands. The final outcome however is that in many parts of the world democracy is saven or has returned. Just waiting for Cuba and North-Korea. Matter of time, I guess...

Originally Posted by Negr

Sayuz nerushimyi respublik svabodnykh If you meaned that

Yep, my Russian was never any good...

Originally Posted by Abraham

Just waiting for Cuba and North-Korea. Matter of time, I guess...

And what about China? It still be acommunist country. How soon are you going to democratize them?