EU deal announced - Page 5

Jimbuna · 11-01-11, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

They say Greece is where Western Civilization was born.

Looks like that's where it's going to die.

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

Torplexed · 11-01-11, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

Jimbuna · 11-02-11, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

Aye rgr that....and the swansong for both of them in their next elections I've no doubt

TarJak · 11-02-11, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

I reckon they are sailing close to the wind on that score with their coice to go to a referendum. Shame the German and French taxpayers weren't consulted as to whether they wanted to bail out the Greeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

No doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Aye rgr that....and the swansong for both of them in their next elections I've no doubt

Most likely they have done their dash with this mess. And I see it getting worse for a long while before getting better.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/world...102-1muao.html

JU_88 · 11-02-11, 04:58 AM

Looks like the **** has hit the fan.

Skybird · 11-02-11, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Most likely they have done their dash with this mess. And I see it getting worse for a long while before getting better.

I do not like Merkel and her policy. She is the plague.

The cholera is the alternative, the socialdemocrats - who already have said that they want Germany to come up for the debts, and that the EU treaties should be changed from prohibiting states bailing out each other (remember: it is a legal, valid prohibition set down in international treaties - nobody talks of that today anymore!) to the rich ones and especially Germany paying without any olimitation for the debts of others. The socialdemocrats also accept German interests for credits going through the ceiling as a result from the devaluation of Gertmany'S rating and exploding debt burden. Their likely candidate for the next election, Steinbrück, has said that very clearly: Germany should pay whatever it takes to prevent Greece from defaulting or leaving the Euro.

I do not know which of these alternatives are worse, to me the both are m marking the utmost possible disaster, the worst possible cases.

Polls say at least one third of Germans would vote for a EU- and Euro-critical party right off from the starting line, if such a party would be formed. There is rumours that Hans Olaf Henkel may do that, a former industrial leader who once suppoorted the Euro but now admits that he was terribly blinded and has u-turned in his assessment. He wants the Euro-zone to be split pretty much the way the graphi I posted on the page before illustrates.

Of all what could be tried, this to me looks as the least terrible solution, a core zone based on Germany, Holland, Austria, Finland, and maybe - due to their low debts, Latvia, Slovakia, the graphics even says Slowenia. The EU wpould be needed to stay out of the management of that Euro currency. The ECB needs to become indepednent again, and then stands at the beginning of getting rid of it's toxic assets that are crippling it.

Most liekly this would also need a splitting up of the EU. Which will be battled against, increasing the damage. states like Britain, France and Poland will not like one bit that core zone formed without them , since it marginalises their own power and influence. There will be a lot of stupid talking about things that have nothing to do with it at all: "justice", and "solidarity", and "European spirit". Slogans and paroles, aiming at maximising one'S own piece of the cake. And strong enough to probably prevcent these events, and thus prolonging the mess, and craving the self-paralysing, weak status of the EU in global competition.

Sun Tsu: he who wants to defend everything, will lose everything. Whjat Europe desperately needs is a "Frontbegradigung", and the urgent forming of sufficient tactical reserves.

Dread Knot · 11-02-11, 07:07 AM

I just stumbled across this and it sounds ominous:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...on-outcry.html

The Greek government just made a sudden announcement of replacement of the military chiefs. That smells like they fear a military coup, or want to get people in place who might go along with some "extraordinary security measures" or some such. The call for the referendum seemed inexplicable, but if something like this is brewing behind the scenes, it would make sense.

JU_88 · 11-02-11, 10:35 AM

Markets seem to have stablised again (for now),

On a bright note for anyone else living in the UK who is expecting the worst, I just read that Britains food production is now 60-74% self sufficient (as of 2005) against its current population figures, compared to just 33% prior to WW2.
I guess we owe alot of it to the technoloical advances in the production of food - and perhaps the scare we had during the battle of the Atlantic.
So even in the event our imports & trade collapsed out right, theroetically we could still avoid a serious food shortage, providing it was rationed and the wheels of production were some how kept in motion.
One can hope anyway...

Jimbuna · 11-02-11, 12:12 PM

Well if things get any worse all that food will only be of use to us if we aren't expected to buy/pay for it

STEED · 11-02-11, 12:14 PM

Markets don't give a dam about what is going on they do what they want. Yesterday was cream off time and today build it up for the next cream off.

Greece don't forget your hard hat when you meet the poison dwarf and her french poodle.

Jimbuna · 11-02-11, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Greece don't forget your hard hat when you meet the poison dwarf and her french poodle.

LOL

JU_88 · 11-02-11, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Well if things get any worse all that food will only be of use to us if we aren't expected to buy/pay for it

Well its that or we would turn into a nation of savages.

soopaman2 · 11-02-11, 01:34 PM

Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only. It is unfair to the rest of the EU, and will only make the stronger nations weaker in the grand scheme.

One person has way to much control over other cultures and nations. The power to impose their financial will on people with no recourse or objection on the part of the rest of the "union"

Why call it a union? When it really isn't.. No wonder the Brits want to leave.

I can almost compare it to an economical version of a certain Austrian Painters aspirations...

STEED · 11-02-11, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only.

If this is the case she has done a number on France without them knowing about it.

Over to Jim to send France a witty wake up letter.

Jimbuna · 11-02-11, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Well its that or we would turn into a nation of savages.

Aren't we uncomfortably close to that already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

If this is the case she has done a number on France without them knowing about it.

Over to Jim to send France a witty wake up letter.

Sorry mate....fresh out of white cotton handkerchiefs and besides, the Germans would smell a rat

11-02-11, 12:12 PM	#69
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,615 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Well if things get any worse all that food will only be of use to us if we aren't expected to buy/pay for it __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-02-11, 12:14 PM	#70
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Markets don't give a dam about what is going on they do what they want. Yesterday was cream off time and today build it up for the next cream off. Greece don't forget your hard hat when you meet the poison dwarf and her french poodle. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

11-02-11, 01:34 PM	#73
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only. It is unfair to the rest of the EU, and will only make the stronger nations weaker in the grand scheme. One person has way to much control over other cultures and nations. The power to impose their financial will on people with no recourse or objection on the part of the rest of the "union" Why call it a union? When it really isn't.. No wonder the Brits want to leave. I can almost compare it to an economical version of a certain Austrian Painters aspirations... __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

11-02-11, 04:58 AM	#65
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Looks like the **** has hit the fan.

11-02-11, 07:07 AM	#67
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I just stumbled across this and it sounds ominous: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...on-outcry.html The Greek government just made a sudden announcement of replacement of the military chiefs. That smells like they fear a military coup, or want to get people in place who might go along with some "extraordinary security measures" or some such. The call for the referendum seemed inexplicable, but if something like this is brewing behind the scenes, it would make sense.

11-02-11, 10:35 AM	#68
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Markets seem to have stablised again (for now), On a bright note for anyone else living in the UK who is expecting the worst, I just read that Britains food production is now 60-74% self sufficient (as of 2005) against its current population figures, compared to just 33% prior to WW2. I guess we owe alot of it to the technoloical advances in the production of food - and perhaps the scare we had during the battle of the Atlantic. So even in the event our imports & trade collapsed out right, theroetically we could still avoid a serious food shortage, providing it was rationed and the wheels of production were some how kept in motion. One can hope anyway...