EU deal announced

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

They say Greece is where Western Civilization was born.

Looks like that's where it's going to die.

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

Aye rgr that....and the swansong for both of them in their next elections I've no doubt

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If they end up with a referendum and a result drawing them away to the latest 'understanding/agreement' I can see them becoming 'persona non grata'.

I reckon they are sailing close to the wind on that score with their coice to go to a referendum. Shame the German and French taxpayers weren't consulted as to whether they wanted to bail out the Greeks.

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to the world premiere of My Big Fat Greek Default. Merkel and Sarkozy will be seated front and center, of course.

No doubt.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Aye rgr that....and the swansong for both of them in their next elections I've no doubt

Most likely they have done their dash with this mess. And I see it getting worse for a long while before getting better.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/world...102-1muao.html

[JU_88]

Looks like the **** has hit the fan.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Most likely they have done their dash with this mess. And I see it getting worse for a long while before getting better.

I do not like Merkel and her policy. She is the plague.

The cholera is the alternative, the socialdemocrats - who already have said that they want Germany to come up for the debts, and that the EU treaties should be changed from prohibiting states bailing out each other (remember: it is a legal, valid prohibition set down in international treaties - nobody talks of that today anymore!) to the rich ones and especially Germany paying without any olimitation for the debts of others. The socialdemocrats also accept German interests for credits going through the ceiling as a result from the devaluation of Gertmany'S rating and exploding debt burden. Their likely candidate for the next election, Steinbrück, has said that very clearly: Germany should pay whatever it takes to prevent Greece from defaulting or leaving the Euro.

I do not know which of these alternatives are worse, to me the both are m marking the utmost possible disaster, the worst possible cases.

Polls say at least one third of Germans would vote for a EU- and Euro-critical party right off from the starting line, if such a party would be formed. There is rumours that Hans Olaf Henkel may do that, a former industrial leader who once suppoorted the Euro but now admits that he was terribly blinded and has u-turned in his assessment. He wants the Euro-zone to be split pretty much the way the graphi I posted on the page before illustrates.

Of all what could be tried, this to me looks as the least terrible solution, a core zone based on Germany, Holland, Austria, Finland, and maybe - due to their low debts, Latvia, Slovakia, the graphics even says Slowenia. The EU wpould be needed to stay out of the management of that Euro currency. The ECB needs to become indepednent again, and then stands at the beginning of getting rid of it's toxic assets that are crippling it.

Most liekly this would also need a splitting up of the EU. Which will be battled against, increasing the damage. states like Britain, France and Poland will not like one bit that core zone formed without them , since it marginalises their own power and influence. There will be a lot of stupid talking about things that have nothing to do with it at all: "justice", and "solidarity", and "European spirit". Slogans and paroles, aiming at maximising one'S own piece of the cake. And strong enough to probably prevcent these events, and thus prolonging the mess, and craving the self-paralysing, weak status of the EU in global competition.

Sun Tsu: he who wants to defend everything, will lose everything. Whjat Europe desperately needs is a "Frontbegradigung", and the urgent forming of sufficient tactical reserves.

[Dread Knot]

I just stumbled across this and it sounds ominous:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...on-outcry.html

The Greek government just made a sudden announcement of replacement of the military chiefs. That smells like they fear a military coup, or want to get people in place who might go along with some "extraordinary security measures" or some such. The call for the referendum seemed inexplicable, but if something like this is brewing behind the scenes, it would make sense.

[JU_88]

Markets seem to have stablised again (for now),

On a bright note for anyone else living in the UK who is expecting the worst, I just read that Britains food production is now 60-74% self sufficient (as of 2005) against its current population figures, compared to just 33% prior to WW2.
I guess we owe alot of it to the technoloical advances in the production of food - and perhaps the scare we had during the battle of the Atlantic.
So even in the event our imports & trade collapsed out right, theroetically we could still avoid a serious food shortage, providing it was rationed and the wheels of production were some how kept in motion.
One can hope anyway...

[soopaman2]

Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only. It is unfair to the rest of the EU, and will only make the stronger nations weaker in the grand scheme.

One person has way to much control over other cultures and nations. The power to impose their financial will on people with no recourse or objection on the part of the rest of the "union"

Why call it a union? When it really isn't.. No wonder the Brits want to leave.

I can almost compare it to an economical version of a certain Austrian Painters aspirations...

[STEED]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only.

If this is the case she has done a number on France without them knowing about it.

Over to Jim to send France a witty wake up letter.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Merkel is doing what is best for Germany and Germany only. It is unfair to the rest of the EU, and will only make the stronger nations weaker in the grand scheme.

I have the strong suspicion you only say that becasue over here we do not follow that anglosaxon model of spending-spending-spending and increasing debts-debts-debts - although effectively we do right that already. Merkels course csosts us much more and has massively reduced the pensions of future poensioners as well. And she did that not becasue too much Germany-to little Europe on her agenda, about because it is the oither way around.

The main prohblem with Greece and some others is their economy is not productive, and not comnpetetive. And since this is the case, you can bail them out as long as you want - you only sink money in an endlessly deep black hole. Which is the visiuon of many eurocrats for a "united Europe". According to them us evil stupid Germans just have to be the "dukatenscheißender Goldesel Europas", to refer to a popular fairy-tale. Beyond that, we should shut up. And Merkel and Sarkozy - Sarjozy has pulklked her over the table several times in the poast three years, and has got several deals costing german tax payers billions - for the sake of French banks.

One person has way to much control over other cultures and nations. The power to impose their financial will on people with no recourse or objection on the part of the rest of the "union"

Why call it a union? When it really isn't.. No wonder the Brits want to leave.

The Euro-zone and the European union are two different things, although the one backfires on the other. And the Brits cannot leave where they are no member. They are no Euro-member, and they always posed with their resysentiument against Europe of whioch they do not want to be part, but in whoise internal business they nevertheless want to have a word. The British position on the EU is very schizophrenic. Not to mention the Brit rabate and the meaning of the Euro for the financial hotspot City of London. The Euro currency can lethally hurt Britain woithout Britain being a member of the Euro-zone. Seen that way they are stupid to stay out of the Euro, because that way they dfo not have a word in Euro-affairs, as has been dek,knstrated again just days ago when Sarkozy cut short Cameron like a little schoolboy.

I thinkl the bigger folly is to form an economy not on real asserts and productivity, but by depending on just a financial transaction hotspot. If I were a Brit, I would noit enter thge Euro,. but would put all priroity on draconically redesigning the economy, making it less dependant on income produced by the abstract note-juggling in the finance district of London.

On of the big problems in Europe are debts. The other is not Germany being too strong - but the others being too weak. That gap is not to be closed by Germqany doing worse, but by the others doing better. Else all Europe gets eaten by Brasil, India, China, etc. The best performer must be our standard by which to plot our course. And the best ones are GHermany, Auistria, Finland, Latvia, Slowakia, slovenia, all either having a good productivity or a very low debt level. Some of theser also got where they are by suffering dearly when cutting spendings and making soial restructuing in trhe past - and that these countries now are outraged that Greece is getting sugar and cimaron that they have suffered for to produce it, can be understood. This explains for example why Fins are against the Greek bailout, also the Slovenians, I think. They argue that Greece wants for free what they themnselves have reached by their own power.

I can almost compare it to an economical version of a certain Austrian Painters aspirations...

Ah, the Nazi card always trumps, doesn't it. But the "argument" remains what it has been: stupid.