Adversarial gameplay & xbox 360? - Page 5

KrvKpt. Falke · 02-18-07, 05:28 PM

Kaleuns, you really scared me! Not so long ago i was a big fan of Ubisofts Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six series. But after they moved it to console (dumbed down it)- well - only Silent Hunter left. Now i hear some people saying they wish to have SH on consoles

SH series is only title from Ubisoft that im still going to buy and play unless it will become consoles exclusive or will be ported from consoles to PC.

(If that will happen GWX team should found real game studio and make real subsim games for us - for free of course

)

hyperion2206 · 02-18-07, 06:41 PM

I wouldn't mind if SH4 was available for consoles as long as the development of the console version is kept seperate from the development of the PC version. But what I fear (and I don't think I'm the only one) is that SH could be developed for console and then converted so it runs on PC.
"Star Trek: Legacy" is a good example. It was orignially developed for console and then converted. The outcome was crap! You could hardly control your ships, because the conversion wasn't done very well. Many PC gamers wiped Legacy of their HD pretty soon and I fear SH would share the same fate.

Sonarman · 02-18-07, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

"Star Trek: Legacy" is a good example. It was orignially developed for console and then converted. The outcome was crap!

Yes I agree, the controls in Legacy were a disaster, the sub-system targetting in particular was almost impossible on the PC. Very bad UI design too, especially the crap power indicator/diverter thing.

Guido · 02-19-07, 05:29 AM

I think the "dum down" card is overplayed to be honest, really the people who want to see SH4 on console consist of the same people who loved to play it on pc, I dont see any need to create a singular "arcade" sub game, when silent hunter 3 already has realism levels incorporated. But you do have to give gamers choice............. for instance I liked a lot the graphic updates from GWX, however realistic sinking times and other changes really detract from MY enjoyment, I want to be immersed in the atmosphere and feel like a real sub captain (on my 40" screen - not my 19" monitor) I dont want to work out every facet of targeting the enemy - I am the captain and I give orders! however I dont mind one bit if other people want to do that, really it should be available to the more "old fashioned" pc gamer, who cares not about eye candy and never has.

The real deal tho, is that the old fashioned pc strategy gamer is on the slide, and will not drive ever more complex (years in the making) simulations - next gen consoles and uber pc's will.

Boris · 02-19-07, 06:07 AM

If all you want is to play Silent Hunter games in you living room on your 40" plasma, you know you can already do that right?

And who said manual targetting was old fashoined, and it's proponents don't care about eye candy? I really hate it when people separate graphics from realism. Graphics is the most important part of realism IMO, without awesome graphics, no amount of dials and buttons is going to have any appeal.

From the tone in your post you sound like you want simulations to be dumbed down?

Guido · 02-19-07, 06:19 AM

Quote:

From the tone in your post you sound like you want simulations to be dumbed down?

no, I would rather give people a choice. If I have lots of time one weekend, I might want to dial up the realism myself!

And I dont mean the method of targetting is old fashioned either, just some peoples ideas -

no offence of course.

Quote:

If all you want is to play Silent Hunter games in you living room on your 40" plasma, you know you can already do that right?

yeah I already do actualy on my media center pc, but the 4:3 aspect is rather untidy, cant be bothered changing DLL's to alter the resolution. Also sitting with a wireless keyboard on my lap is ok for a bit, but id prefer a wireless controller! and proper next gen gfx. I had thought about getting a trackball for it.

rocco · 02-19-07, 11:42 AM

I'm getting the feeling a lot of people haven't seen Blueray Discs in full high
definition. It's absolutely gorgeous, words can't describe it. To see Silent
Hunter in 1080p on my 50" Sony SXRD would be amazing, and I think
everyone would agree if they saw it.

The reason why there are no simulation games on consoles is because no
one has had the balls to try it. If it flopped, a ton of money would be lost.
But taking risks can also pay off big. I don't want to see this series become
anything different than what it is currently. I love it. If I could get the same
game on the PS3, I would probably buy both versions.

I doubt Ubisoft is willing to take that risk though.

Rocco

geetrue · 02-19-07, 12:41 PM

The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first, instead of picking up a box in their local game outlet and taking a quick glance at the spec's and the marketing hype on the box.

Then rushing to the check out cashier and removing the contents as soon as they get home to install on their PC or plop in the slot of their console, before they find out it is a bad game.

I vote for the first online game web page that sells PC and console games and after you have checked the item to purchase and gone to check out ... a little pop up box comes up asking,

"Do you really want to purchase this game based on what other buyers have commented"?

I know greed won't let it happen, but it sure would make the game industry regulate itself better for higher quality standards.

flintlock · 02-19-07, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first

I believe mature gamers usually do their due diligence in research before pulling the trigger on a title. However, one pitfall even the latter group fall into is hype. You know the drill: you've been following the development of a new title, let the hype get the better of you and purchase it the moment it's released, or you've pre-ordered weeks ahead of release, only to realize the title's a dud (speaking from experience here).

As always, caveat emptor.

ReallyDedPoet · 02-19-07, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

"

The thing thats changed today, is this..............

PC's are getting cheaper and cheaper I agree - however gaming on a pc has gone in the other direction...... you need two gfx cards or more ........... you need dual cores or more................. in order to game "properly" on the pc these days, and compare gaming to my 360 and 40" screen etc you need to spend over £3k to gain the same experience. its these spenders that drive the development of games, and these guyz and gals only have a certain amount of cash, I purchased one 40" sony bravia this year, and I cant see me buying another huge screen to watch the pc stutter on.............................

I'll second that. Good point

Boris · 02-19-07, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first

I believe mature gamers usually do their due diligence in research before pulling the trigger on a title. However, one pitfall even the latter group fall into is hype. You know the drill: you've been following the development of a new title, let the hype get the better of you and purchase it the moment it's released, or you've pre-ordered weeks ahead of release, only to realize the title's a dud (speaking from experience here).

As always, caveat emptor.

No danger of that happening with SH4 I don't think. I was quite happy with SH3, even though it was limited, and SH4 only has more to offer.

flintlock · 02-19-07, 01:45 PM

Agreed.

Though it's a little safer bet when you have a previous title in a franchise to base the next iteration on. Oh, and -- I'll admit, I pre-ordered last week.

Drokkon · 02-20-07, 03:33 AM

I got my start on subsims in the late 80s on consoles. Anyone here remember Silent Service on the Nintendo. They made a second on for the Super Nintendo but I couldn't find it in any stores in the midwest. Another great console game was 688 Attack Sub. If you wanted to man a russian Alpha sub you had better know your controls well. All the controls were in russian and the voice in the game spoke russian. These games didn't seem dumbed down to me for the time of their release and what these systems could do.Well Silent Service was pretty simple, but all you had was 4 buttons and not much memory on those old cartridges.

The only advantage a company has to do a game for the PC only is that they can release it unfinished then patch it to complete it. What would be great is if the console game came out after the PC gamers had beta tested it.

I enjoy PC gaming, but to say that they have to dumb it down for the masses on consoles seem a bit rude to mature console players.

squigian · 02-20-07, 08:14 AM

It certainly is possible, but there are a number of potential stumbling blocks:

Money: I've no idea how much it would cost to distribute the game for multiple formats, but I think the potential sales figures would probably cover it. Whether the gamble would pay off, though, is another matter...

Time: It will take a fair bit longer to configure the controls and balance for both titles as well as tailor the graphics to suit the different consoles. Add a month or so to the ETA.

Simplification: Before you cry foul, I think that this is inevitable should the console sales come first in the publisher's mind. The fact is, despite the mature gamers playing, that a lot of kids own the platforms and their parents have money. This wouldn't ruin the game, it would still be fun, but I cite the following examples: Deus Ex: Invisible War and Oblivion. Both fun (I'm playing a lot of the second right now) games, but lacking in the depth of their predecessors. To counteract this, the PC must remain the foremost platform in the developer's head.

Perhaps it's perfectly possible to port the periscope to a plethora of platforms, but the PC must remain the dominant market, to my mind, to preserve what we have already.

Guido · 02-20-07, 11:47 AM

hi squigian,

you touched on one of my all time faves, deus ex, I agree the follow up was dissapointing in many ways, although i still enjoyed it and completed it.

But equaly i feel that in this short space of time from xbox to 360, the market is steadily shifting. Xbox one was more about MS gaining a foot hold into the console market. unlike now, where more and more gamers are utilising the 360 in preference to the PC - I guess if Warren spector was given the spondoolies to make a proper deus ex on the 360 we might see a much better attempt! I also think the average playing age is rising all time on 360 and other consoles too.

Anyway we can dream about DX3 sometime cant we, in the meantime we have bioshock!

02-18-07, 06:41 PM	#62
hyperion2206 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I wouldn't mind if SH4 was available for consoles as long as the development of the console version is kept seperate from the development of the PC version. But what I fear (and I don't think I'm the only one) is that SH could be developed for console and then converted so it runs on PC. "Star Trek: Legacy" is a good example. It was orignially developed for console and then converted. The outcome was crap! You could hardly control your ships, because the conversion wasn't done very well. Many PC gamers wiped Legacy of their HD pretty soon and I fear SH would share the same fate. __________________ Career of Captain Jack Shaftoe:

02-19-07, 05:29 AM	#64
Guido Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Englande Posts: 84 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the "dum down" card is overplayed to be honest, really the people who want to see SH4 on console consist of the same people who loved to play it on pc, I dont see any need to create a singular "arcade" sub game, when silent hunter 3 already has realism levels incorporated. But you do have to give gamers choice............. for instance I liked a lot the graphic updates from GWX, however realistic sinking times and other changes really detract from MY enjoyment, I want to be immersed in the atmosphere and feel like a real sub captain (on my 40" screen - not my 19" monitor) I dont want to work out every facet of targeting the enemy - I am the captain and I give orders! however I dont mind one bit if other people want to do that, really it should be available to the more "old fashioned" pc gamer, who cares not about eye candy and never has. The real deal tho, is that the old fashioned pc strategy gamer is on the slide, and will not drive ever more complex (years in the making) simulations - next gen consoles and uber pc's will. __________________ Cant sink, wont sink........................

02-19-07, 12:41 PM	#68
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first, instead of picking up a box in their local game outlet and taking a quick glance at the spec's and the marketing hype on the box. Then rushing to the check out cashier and removing the contents as soon as they get home to install on their PC or plop in the slot of their console, before they find out it is a bad game. I vote for the first online game web page that sells PC and console games and after you have checked the item to purchase and gone to check out ... a little pop up box comes up asking, "Do you really want to purchase this game based on what other buyers have commented"? I know greed won't let it happen, but it sure would make the game industry regulate itself better for higher quality standards. __________________

02-20-07, 03:33 AM	#73
Drokkon Loader Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 90 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I got my start on subsims in the late 80s on consoles. Anyone here remember Silent Service on the Nintendo. They made a second on for the Super Nintendo but I couldn't find it in any stores in the midwest. Another great console game was 688 Attack Sub. If you wanted to man a russian Alpha sub you had better know your controls well. All the controls were in russian and the voice in the game spoke russian. These games didn't seem dumbed down to me for the time of their release and what these systems could do.Well Silent Service was pretty simple, but all you had was 4 buttons and not much memory on those old cartridges. The only advantage a company has to do a game for the PC only is that they can release it unfinished then patch it to complete it. What would be great is if the console game came out after the PC gamers had beta tested it. I enjoy PC gaming, but to say that they have to dumb it down for the masses on consoles seem a bit rude to mature console players. __________________ Last edited by Drokkon; 02-20-07 at 03:53 AM.

02-20-07, 11:47 AM	#75
Guido Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Englande Posts: 84 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	hi squigian, you touched on one of my all time faves, deus ex, I agree the follow up was dissapointing in many ways, although i still enjoyed it and completed it. But equaly i feel that in this short space of time from xbox to 360, the market is steadily shifting. Xbox one was more about MS gaining a foot hold into the console market. unlike now, where more and more gamers are utilising the 360 in preference to the PC - I guess if Warren spector was given the spondoolies to make a proper deus ex on the 360 we might see a much better attempt! I also think the average playing age is rising all time on 360 and other consoles too. Anyway we can dream about DX3 sometime cant we, in the meantime we have bioshock! __________________ Cant sink, wont sink........................

02-18-07, 05:28 PM	#61
KrvKpt. Falke Planesman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Iron Coffin Posts: 195 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Kaleuns, you really scared me! Not so long ago i was a big fan of Ubisofts Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six series. But after they moved it to console (dumbed down it)- well - only Silent Hunter left. Now i hear some people saying they wish to have SH on consoles SH series is only title from Ubisoft that im still going to buy and play unless it will become consoles exclusive or will be ported from consoles to PC. (If that will happen GWX team should found real game studio and make real subsim games for us - for free of course )

02-19-07, 06:07 AM	#65
Boris Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 1,691 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	If all you want is to play Silent Hunter games in you living room on your 40" plasma, you know you can already do that right? And who said manual targetting was old fashoined, and it's proponents don't care about eye candy? I really hate it when people separate graphics from realism. Graphics is the most important part of realism IMO, without awesome graphics, no amount of dials and buttons is going to have any appeal. From the tone in your post you sound like you want simulations to be dumbed down?

02-19-07, 11:42 AM	#67
rocco Seaman Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 42 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I'm getting the feeling a lot of people haven't seen Blueray Discs in full high definition. It's absolutely gorgeous, words can't describe it. To see Silent Hunter in 1080p on my 50" Sony SXRD would be amazing, and I think everyone would agree if they saw it. The reason why there are no simulation games on consoles is because no one has had the balls to try it. If it flopped, a ton of money would be lost. But taking risks can also pay off big. I don't want to see this series become anything different than what it is currently. I love it. If I could get the same game on the PS3, I would probably buy both versions. I doubt Ubisoft is willing to take that risk though. Rocco

02-19-07, 01:45 PM	#72
flintlock Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,177 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Agreed. Though it's a little safer bet when you have a previous title in a franchise to base the next iteration on. Oh, and -- I'll admit, I pre-ordered last week.

02-20-07, 08:14 AM	#74
squigian Helmsman Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 107 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It certainly is possible, but there are a number of potential stumbling blocks: Money: I've no idea how much it would cost to distribute the game for multiple formats, but I think the potential sales figures would probably cover it. Whether the gamble would pay off, though, is another matter... Time: It will take a fair bit longer to configure the controls and balance for both titles as well as tailor the graphics to suit the different consoles. Add a month or so to the ETA. Simplification: Before you cry foul, I think that this is inevitable should the console sales come first in the publisher's mind. The fact is, despite the mature gamers playing, that a lot of kids own the platforms and their parents have money. This wouldn't ruin the game, it would still be fun, but I cite the following examples: Deus Ex: Invisible War and Oblivion. Both fun (I'm playing a lot of the second right now) games, but lacking in the depth of their predecessors. To counteract this, the PC must remain the foremost platform in the developer's head. Perhaps it's perfectly possible to port the periscope to a plethora of platforms, but the PC must remain the dominant market, to my mind, to preserve what we have already.